Jbr Posted July 20, 2023 Share 3 minutes ago, Irvin85 said: The race is far from over, yes it will take a super human effort to unseat Jonas, but he might have a bad day on Saturday, there is still 5 catogorised climbs on saturday and Pog might come out better. I do not doubt that he will attack like crazy on Saturday. He does not look like someone that will give up. Extremely unlikely that Pogi takes 7mins35 back to Jonas on one stage, especially in the form he looks in at the moment. Only scenario I see is if Jonas crashes and gets an injury. Hopefully Pogi still manages a stage win 🤞 Edited July 20, 2023 by Jbr devvydoesdonuts, JohanDiv, babse and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irvin85 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Highly unlikely yes. but not impossible. Jonas might get sick/crash or have a really bad day. TheoG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoG Posted July 20, 2023 Share 4 minutes ago, Jbr said: Extremely unlikely that Pogi takes 7mins35 back to Jonas on one stage, especially in the form he looks in at the moment. Only scenario I see is if Jonas crashes and gets an injury. Hopefully Pogi still manages a stage win 🤞 Agree. imho Pog look mentally very much down & out. Lets see what he can do on stage 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irvin85 Posted July 20, 2023 Share 4 hours ago, Shebeen said: maybe. I'm not sure what the original plan was before he had the crash but clearly he was in peak form in March/April so would have had some enforced rest and camps on the schedule to pivot to Tour condition. The break probably came at the right time, for him to take a break. He would have spent a lot of time on the turbo trainer too so wouldn't have been starting from scratch. The key takeaway here will be he goes to defend all these races next spring, or does the Jonas (well, Lance) route of focusing solely on the tour for 2024? TP won this early battle, JV won the war I thought that if Pog was "unfit" he would have suffered in the first 2 weeks to stay with Jonas and him coming into the tour a bit uncooked could potentially help him in the final week as he should be a bit fresher with less racing in his legs. It does seems like he really struggles in the heat, both the TT and yesterday's stage was quite hot and I think that is what eventually took its toll on him. TheoG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2fly Posted July 20, 2023 Share 12 minutes ago, Irvin85 said: I thought that if Pog was "unfit" he would have suffered in the first 2 weeks to stay with Jonas and him coming into the tour a bit uncooked could potentially help him in the final week as he should be a bit fresher with less racing in his legs. It does seems like he really struggles in the heat, both the TT and yesterday's stage was quite hot and I think that is what eventually took its toll on him. Tell tale signs were in the TT. JFV went out angry and aggressive like you have to to win, while TP Looked very measured. IMHO TP is tired and way off his best. I do wonder though where JV found such a leap in form compared to everyone else and over previous years....I'm just sceptical about micro dosing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Wakefield Posted July 20, 2023 Share 16 minutes ago, Irvin85 said: I thought that if Pog was "unfit" he would have suffered in the first 2 weeks to stay with Jonas and him coming into the tour a bit uncooked could potentially help him in the final week as he should be a bit fresher with less racing in his legs. It does seems like he really struggles in the heat, both the TT and yesterday's stage was quite hot and I think that is what eventually took its toll on him. If you not carrying form you better earlier on not later in a grant tour and definitely not the Tour de France Vetplant, TheoG and JohanDiv 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbr Posted July 20, 2023 Share Yeah initially I also thought the lack of racing and probably week or couple weeks off after breaking his wrist would make him a bit weaker in the first week/maybe couple of weeks and he'd feel better in the end. Not at all how it went. That's why I'm not a coach I guess 🤣 Edited July 20, 2023 by Jbr TheoG and Akon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 20, 2023 Share I feel for the laaitie; he’s had a lot of wins (61) in his short career, and very few failures, at least in the last 3 seasons. Must be hard for him to deal with the disappointment of knowing his absolute best potential is not being showing this week. It’s great to witness a GT winner mixing it with the best in Flanders, and other one day classics and monuments. I hope to see more of this going forward. At 24, he still has time, but how long can he ride the wave of (seemingly endless) success? Time will tell. For now… it’s entertainment at its best, just like movies, TV, music, etc. Chappeau Pogačar (and Jonas) on a great rivalry. justinafrika, Prince Albert Cycles, JohanDiv and 5 others 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbr Posted July 20, 2023 Share 1 minute ago, Frosty said: I feel for the laaitie; he’s had a lot of wins (61) in his short career, and very few failures, at least in the last 3 seasons. Must be hard for him to deal with the disappointment of knowing his absolute best potential is not being showing this week. It’s great to witness a GT winner mixing it with the best in Flanders, and other one day classics and monuments. I hope to see more of this going forward. At 24, he still has time, but how long can he ride the wave of (seemingly endless) success? Time will tell. For now… it’s entertainment at its best, just like movies, TV, music, etc. Chappeau Pogačar (and Jonas) on a great rivalry. We definitely are lucky we have such great talents in the same era, Pogi/Vingo or VdP/WvA have been delivering some great racing the last couple of seasons. Imagine if we only had Pogi or Vingegaard the last 2 Tours! Frosty and TheoG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted July 20, 2023 Share Say, hypothetically, doping was legal - would these same guys have been slogging it out against each other? Hell yes ................... Armstrong, Ulrich, Contador and the entire crazy bunch might have still been racing these young guns 😜 mecheng89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebeen Posted July 20, 2023 Share 1 hour ago, Irvin85 said: The race is far from over, yes it will take a super human effort to unseat Jonas, but he might have a bad day on Saturday, there is still 5 catogorised climbs on saturday and Pog might come out better. I do not doubt that he will attack like crazy on Saturday. He does not look like someone that will give up. seems relevant FYI. there were no Astanas attacked by bears in the pyrenees, as it turned out TheoG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebeen Posted July 20, 2023 Share 3 minutes ago, Mook said: Say, hypothetically, doping was legal - would these same guys have been slogging it out against each other? Hell yes ................... Armstrong, Ulrich, Contador and the entire crazy bunch might have still been racing these young guns 😜 this old chestnut again? It's been said a lot of times. The response to doping is not the same. Everyone's physiology is different, so the performance gains are therefore not linear either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 20, 2023 Share Given the amount of water being poured over team leaders, I wonder if the heat this year is excessive, and if Pogacar suffers more. Has the heat chipped away at his fatigue? Zebra and TheoG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepeekaitjie Posted July 20, 2023 Share Please be careful guys. The amount of copium going on around here I am worried some of you might get addicted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinafrika Posted July 20, 2023 Share Edited July 20, 2023 by justinafrika Scary Rider, mecheng89, TheoG and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted July 20, 2023 Share 2 hours ago, J Wakefield said: If you not carrying form you better earlier on not later in a grant tour and definitely not the Tour de France I’d like to know how much Allen Pieper is missed right now and even John Wakefield. TheoG, splat and JohanDiv 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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