Bicycle lanes from Muizenberg to Fish Hoek

[Nick]

4 minutes ago, Jono said:

With regards to signage on the stretch from Clovelly to Muizenberg, how about signs that display "cyclists have right of way on this section of road" and "no passing of cyclists for the next 3km" I reckon this will take the death rate to zero whilst only adding 5 minutes or so to commuting time.

Often I meet the same cars that overtook me in St James/ Kalk Bay at the Muizenberg intersection. But explaining the concept to people is really difficult.

[Estelle Tennent]

I so love all your thoughts around this subject. I have no other way to get about and yes I could take my folding bike on the train to fish hoek, but we all know the issues around trains. I couldn't visit my sister in glencairn yesterday as the traffic was insane. 

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, DJR said:

As said above, when the road was totally rebuilt, it initially had plans for a cycling lane. Ratepayers screamed blue murder because they would losetheir off street parking and the City capitulated..........and THAT is why said ratepayers now regularly have to see dead and maimed cyclists in the road while they park their cars (please recognise the hyperbole).

Can't find much on google so going on memory here.

As a muizies resident I went to some of the early meetings and remember it differently.  I'm sure residents complained (as they always do about anything) about losing their already very limited parking, but the bigger issue was that a cycle lane was just too much effort to fit in.

Main road section here needed a long overdue upgrade, had essentially never been done as the road was always just too busy. I think initial plan was 3 years, but that was overly optimistic (it will be done before the world cup!!). Construction started the day after the Argus in 2008 and in the end it took over 9 years. They found all sorts of stuff under ground that complicated things, and had to keep it one lane at a time stop/go etc etc.  (Unfortunately this only just created traffic chaos and long waiting times and not a LARGE move to cycling/car pooling/rail adoption with motorists moaning in their single occupant vehicles).

The City was very keen to explore adding a dedicated cycling component to this route, and it was busy with plans in milnerton, paarden island, greenpoint and woodstock etc that did get built. Most of these have been terribly designed and not attracted the numbers expected. I remember the main issue of a MZB=>fishhoek dedicated lane being contigious space. The road was originally used for low volume horse carriages and there are many pinch points that now just can't practically be widened, where at many points there are THREE options for pedestrians.

This is just one of many places where you just can't put a bikelane in without changing a lot of stuff, or making riders return to the road

 

The alternate that could actually work is to use the railway property. It would be far from straightforward but 95% of it is achievable in this section without much fuss. I have more confidence in pigs flying than a deal been made for this though. Even if someone waved a magic wand and it did somehow get built, I unfortunately expect there would be a daily turf war between those casually riding with their eyes on the view, the racer crowd with a strava segment to beat, pedestrians, joggers, dogwalkers who shouldn;t be there in the first place and the poor commuter riders in blue overalls who actually need it most.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[El Duderino]

36 minutes ago, MudLark said:

I am not sure if we are taking about the same strip of road (I am not that familiar with CT and surrounds) but on the way in on Friday I saw loads of tannies with "Slow Down for the Baboons" signs and so on. But nothing warning motorists about cyclists. One good thing was that the Uber driver said that one has to be careful of the cyclists (after I remarked on how dangerous the situation was for the cyclists we passed) because they have organisations that pursue you if you bump one. No idea if it is true but it is a good thing if it makes drivers more careful. As for the guys that cycle Chappies... there's no room for forgiveness there either if a driver screws up. I considered walking a few km into Hout Bay from near the Chappies toll gate around sunset time but looking at the road realised that I might easily get smacked by a car in the dusk... then thought about the poor bloody cyclists. I have ridden Chappies on a cycle tour and it must be the best bike route anywhere in the world.... but for this aspect. A pity indeed. Maybe one's pespective is different if you live and ride there frequently. Don't know. I was thinking of schlepping a bike down there to go just ride around for a few days in the area given how beautiful it is. But the safety situation makes me think that it may be better to give it a miss, partly because a lack of local knowledge on my part.

Bring your bike. No need to ride that hell run between Fish Hoek and Muizenberg. And you don't have to ride Chappies, but it is full of cyclists on most weekends in summer. You can ride from Fishhoek the other way via Simonstown to Cape Point Reserve and ride in the reserve. It's a spectacular ride if you carry on to Scarborough and return to Fishoek via Kommetjie. Just have to run the gauntlet from Ocean View past Masi (never had any issues here myself).  

Edited November 14, 2022 by El Duderino

[Shebeen]

39 minutes ago, Jono said:

With regards to signage on the stretch from Clovelly to Muizenberg, how about signs that display "cyclists have right of way on this section of road" and "no passing of cyclists for the next 3km" I reckon this will take the death rate to zero whilst only adding 5 minutes  30 seconds or so to commuting time.

 

[Rocky999RSL]

23 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Can't find much on google so going on memory here.

As a muizies resident I went to some of the early meetings and remember it differently.  I'm sure residents complained (as they always do about anything) about losing their already very limited parking, but the bigger issue was that a cycle lane was just too much effort to fit in.

Main road section here needed a long overdue upgrade, had essentially never been done as the road was always just too busy. I think initial plan was 3 years, but that was overly optimistic (it will be done before the world cup!!). Construction started the day after the Argus in 2008 and in the end it took over 9 years. They found all sorts of stuff under ground that complicated things, and had to keep it one lane at a time stop/go etc etc.  (Unfortunately this only just created traffic chaos and long waiting times and not a LARGE move to cycling/car pooling/rail adoption with motorists moaning in their single occupant vehicles).

The City was very keen to explore adding a dedicated cycling component to this route, and it was busy with plans in milnerton, paarden island, greenpoint and woodstock etc that did get built. Most of these have been terribly designed and not attracted the numbers expected. I remember the main issue of a MZB=>fishhoek dedicated lane being contigious space. The road was originally used for low volume horse carriages and there are many pinch points that now just can't practically be widened, where at many points there are THREE options for pedestrians.

This is just one of many places where you just can't put a bikelane in without changing a lot of stuff, or making riders return to the road

 

The alternate that could actually work is to use the railway property. It would be far from straightforward but 95% of it is achievable in this section without much fuss. I have more confidence in pigs flying than a deal been made for this though. Even if someone waved a magic wand and it did somehow get built, I unfortunately expect there would be a daily turf war between those casually riding with their eyes on the view, the racer crowd with a strava segment to beat, pedestrians, joggers, dogwalkers who shouldn;t be there in the first place and the poor commuter riders in blue overalls who actually need it most.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whilst we wait for pigs to fly, I find it safer to ride that stretch when there is slow traffic  Bumper to bumper traffic is the best

[DieselnDust]

41 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Can't find much on google so going on memory here.

As a Muizies resident I went to some of the early meetings and remember it differently.  I'm sure residents complained (as they always do about anything) about losing their already very limited parking, but the bigger issue was that a cycle lane was just too much effort to fit in.

Main road section here needed a long overdue upgrade, had essentially never been done as the road was always just too busy. I think initial plan was 3 years, but that was overly optimistic (it will be done before the world cup!!). Construction started the day after the Argus in 2007 and in the end it took over 10 years. They found all sorts of stuff under ground that complicated things, and had to keep it one lane at a time stop/go etc etc.  (Unfortunately this only just created traffic chaos and long waiting times and not a LARGE move to cycling/car pooling/rail adoption with motorists moaning in their single occupant vehicles).

The City was very keen to explore adding a dedicated cycling component to this route, and it was busy with plans in Milnerton, Paarden Eiland, Greenpoint and Woodstock e.t.c. that did get built. Most of these have been terribly designed and not attracted the numbers expected. I remember the main issue of a MZB=>Fishhoek dedicated lane being contiguous space. The road was originally used for low volume horse carriages and there are many pinch points that now just can't practically be widened, where at many points there are THREE options for pedestrians.

This is just one of many places where you just can't put a bikelane in without changing a lot of stuff, or making riders return to the road

 

The alternate that could actually work is to use the railway property. It would be far from straightforward but 95% of it is achievable in this section without much fuss. I have more confidence in pigs flying than a deal been made for this though. Even if someone waved a magic wand and it did somehow get built, I unfortunately expect there would be a daily turf war between those casually riding with their eyes on the view, the racer crowd with a Strava segment to beat, pedestrians, joggers, dogwalkers who shouldn't be there in the first place and the poor commuter riders in blue overalls who actually need it most.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

correction in bold. That project took a looooong time to finish. the Rail property is a good idea as it really isn't good use of resources. If the railway is removed there is space for a dual lane bus and taxi way or light tram and cycle path. but there's no political will so It won't happen before Jesus comes again

[Nick]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

The alternate that could actually work is to use the railway property. It would be far from straightforward but 95% of it is achievable in this section without much fuss. I have more confidence in pigs flying than a deal been made for this though. Even if someone waved a magic wand and it did somehow get built, I unfortunately expect there would be a daily turf war between those casually riding with their eyes on the view, the racer crowd with a strava segment to beat, pedestrians, joggers, dogwalkers who shouldn;t be there in the first place and the poor commuter riders in blue overalls who actually need it most.

The railway pipe dream should definitely exclude the speeds, bunches, and attitudes of sports cyclists.

But it could help ease up some of the competition for space suffered on the road. Who knows? Motorists might actually park somewhere sensible to walk or rent a commuting bike to get to places with such infrastructure in place. I did say pipe dream 😄

[Eddy Gordo]

29 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

 

 

correction in bold. That project took a looooong time to finish. the Rail property is a good idea as it really isn't good use of resources. If the railway is removed there is space for a dual lane bus and taxi way or light tram and cycle path. but there's no political will so It won't happen before Jesus comes again

Yes, a tram from muizenberg would be awesome. and the other part a cycle lane.

[FootballingCyclist]

2 hours ago, Nick said:

Often I meet the same cars that overtook me in St James/ Kalk Bay at the Muizenberg intersection. But explaining the concept to people is really difficult.

Smile and wave, Kill them with kindness.. They love it.

[guidodg]

when I still lived in Muizenberg I would drive to Simonstown shopping centre and ride from there, into Cape Point nature reserve, do some nice loops and back...I refused to ride anywhere near Kalk Bay, Boyes Dr, Fish Hoek...just too scary and unpleasant...

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

 

 

correction in bold. That project took a looooong time to finish. the Rail property is a good idea as it really isn't good use of resources. If the railway is removed there is space for a dual lane bus and taxi way or light tram and cycle path. but there's no political will so It won't happen before Jesus comes again

you could well be right. That's the only bit I could find with a quick google, and it's your word against Brett Herron. I seem to remember there was *** with the first contractor underpricing and then running into issues once the full scope of the job became apparent. 

 

[DieselnDust]

7 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

you could well be right. That's the only bit I could find with a quick google, and it's your word against Brett Herron. I seem to remember there was *** with the first contractor underpricing and then running into issues once the full scope of the job became apparent. 

 

I read that, they wrote that article when it was nearly completed but I remember the road works was well under way in 2008 ctct. 

[Zebra]

5 hours ago, MudLark said:

As for the guys that cycle Chappies... there's no room for forgiveness there either if a driver screws up. I considered walking a few km into Hout Bay from near the Chappies toll gate around sunset time but looking at the road realised that I might easily get smacked by a car in the dusk... then thought about the poor bloody cyclists. I have ridden Chappies on a cycle tour and it must be the best bike route anywhere in the world.... but for this aspect. A pity indeed. Maybe one's pespective is different if you live and ride there frequently. Don't know. I was thinking of schlepping a bike down there to go just ride around for a few days in the area given how beautiful it is. But the safety situation makes me think that it may be better to give it a miss, partly because a lack of local knowledge on my part.

You can walk off the road ALL the way from the toll gate down to end of Chappies (Hout Bay side)...

Definitely bring your bike down, to cycle Chappies: I live in Hout Bay, and cycle Chappies; just keep left, avoid riding 2 abreast unless it is REALLY quiet, and you will be fine. Cars are pretty respectful of single file cyclists - they go bat-sh!t crazy when a bunch is all over the road, and then not giving way - (MY experience, living in Houties on and off for 30+ years)

...the average Chappies-using motorist wants to get past a cyclist, to get where he is going; keeping well left allows them to pass them easily; no tour buses are allowed in the ONE direction, to help with traffic flow, and hire cars - well, they DO hang back; a simple hand-wave 'instructing' them to move past when it is safe to do so is all you need.

Chappies is exhilarating, and relatively safe, just observe basic 'rules' and/or courtesies, and enjoy!

[Meezo]

1 minute ago, Zebra said:

You can walk off the road ALL the way from the toll gate down to end of Chappies (Hout Bay side)...

Definitely bring your bike down, to cycle Chappies: I live in Hout Bay, and cycle Chappies; just keep left, avoid riding 2 abreast unless it is REALLY quiet, and you will be fine. Cars are pretty respectful of single file cyclists - they go bat-sh!t crazy when a bunch is all over the road, and then not giving way - (MY experience, living in Houties on and off for 30+ years)

...the average Chappies-using motorist wants to get past a cyclist, to get where he is going; keeping well left allows them to pass them easily; no tour buses are allowed in the ONE direction, to help with traffic flow, and hire cars - well, they DO hang back; a simple hand-wave 'instructing' them to move past when it is safe to do so is all you need.

Chappies is exhilarating, and relatively safe, just observe basic 'rules' and/or courtesies, and enjoy!

funny you mention this, yesterday was the 1st time i saw (took note of) the sign that says no pedestrians beyond this point... not sure what it means though 2 meters later about 4-5 runners coming down there

[MudLark]

14 minutes ago, Zebra said:

You can walk off the road ALL the way from the toll gate down to end of Chappies (Hout Bay side)...

Definitely bring your bike down, to cycle Chappies: I live in Hout Bay, and cycle Chappies; just keep left, avoid riding 2 abreast unless it is REALLY quiet, and you will be fine. Cars are pretty respectful of single file cyclists - they go bat-sh!t crazy when a bunch is all over the road, and then not giving way - (MY experience, living in Houties on and off for 30+ years)

...the average Chappies-using motorist wants to get past a cyclist, to get where he is going; keeping well left allows them to pass them easily; no tour buses are allowed in the ONE direction, to help with traffic flow, and hire cars - well, they DO hang back; a simple hand-wave 'instructing' them to move past when it is safe to do so is all you need.

Chappies is exhilarating, and relatively safe, just observe basic 'rules' and/or courtesies, and enjoy!

Thank you very much!