Dealer debate

[Shebeen]

5 minutes ago, Kom said:

i was watching this ad for the last couple of days

before --> https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/624393/s-works-epic

after --> https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/560962/s-works-epic-l-12spd-axs-carbonwheels-sidsl

At least bikegarage left the power meter installed, and at face value, R70k out and R75k in is not a crazy markup. Im sure the price traded up front was probs closer to R50k, but that wouldve been any hubbers chance to take.

that is a dealer2dealer transaction!

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, Lynnwood Cyclery said:

So we will reply as a dealer.

Although we dont particularly deal in Second hand bikes we do from time to time get a good bike in that we then trade in on a new bike and then try to sell on the Hub. But buy in (from the hub) is not what we do best, so leaving that for second hand dealers.
Almost all of the deal we post, gets lowballed by another secondhand retailer within minutes.
We have stopped replying just because its way to much admin.

We as a store offer a 3month "warranty" on the bikes sold. If there is any remainder of a Specialized second owner warranty left we honour that too. Whichever is a longer period.

Excellent reply, I would totally do business with you. Always nice to know that the good dealers are also pi$$ed off by the shark ones!

[SoloCyclist]

Every forum I have ever being on has this same issue from video games to cars and motorcycles

Kinda sad to see it also happens here on the cycling page but I guess its just business

Everyones trying to survive so buying and selling is a genuine hustle

[ACE Cycles]

11 hours ago, Mongoose! said:

would be nice if Bikehub had the functionality to filter ads between private sales and dealer listings...  

They do

[Eddy Gordo]

3 hours ago, fanievb said:

In 2021 sometime, I asked @Matt about an ignore button for the classifieds, similar to the one in the forums.

He indicated it was in the planning, but I suspect the idea got dropped.

I scroll adds for bargains or something specific I need, with the amount of dealer listings it becomes a pain the ass to filter through all the over-priced (sometimes re-listed) dealer "specials".

The problem with current filter options is that you exclude all dealers, which is not always what you want as some dealers actually know what they are doing and offer real bargains, hence ignore the dealers which imo add zero value.

Yes, I think I was part of that discussion, unless you pm'd him. I cant handle the amount of repeat ads, it has become worse than gumtree. At least the forum is still around

[ACE Cycles]

18 hours ago, RossTopher said:

I'm loathe to even poke this bear, but here goes.

Been keeping an eye on the classifieds the last few months with some friends looking for bikes. Setup alerts, sent them links etc, but the moment you even sniff a decent deal, a dealer swoops in a it's back up online before the dust has settled at some crazy multiple.

What's the general consensus here, should dealers be limited so say 25 listings, or maybe max net value across listings. 

I know some will say it's good for sellers, but they aren't even getting a good score, the dealers are just going in for anything fair/undervalued (imo) and then driving up the used market value, that only they can supply, making it really difficult for people to meet their needs/wants in budget. 

Just seen one 46% higher than it was listed privately yesterday

 

We need to distinguish between resellers and dealers

[ACE Cycles]

A reseller simply buys a bike on the hub from a seller and the resells it at a profit.

A dealer's role is more complex, often the 3rd wheel in a deal. In my case, bike shops contact me for a trade offer, the offer gets worked into the new bike price. The client gets a new bike and was able to trade his old bike in. The shop makes a sale and the dealer gets stock to sell at a profit

[OVERDRIVE]

5 hours ago, Lynnwood Cyclery said:

So we will reply as a dealer.

Although we dont particularly deal in Second hand bikes we do from time to time get a good bike in that we then trade in on a new bike and then try to sell on the Hub. But buy in (from the hub) is not what we do best, so leaving that for second hand dealers.
Almost all of the deal we post, gets lowballed by another secondhand retailer within minutes.
We have stopped replying just because its way to much admin.

We as a store offer a 3month "warranty" on the bikes sold. If there is any remainder of a Specialized second owner warranty left we honour that too. Whichever is a longer period.

@Lynnwood Cyclery I like the way you do business. 😎

5 hours ago, Matt said:

We're following the debate with interest.

We've always taken the stance of the market will decide in terms of the price a given seller will accept and what a buyer is willing to pay. And we still stand by that with respect to the general debate about resellers, pricing, etc.

However, feedback here around lowball offers in particular and an influx of recent complaints about these does have us questioning how to better approach this. 

Historically the assumption on our side was that on balance "a low offer is better than no offers", but feedback here and from users directly makes it very clear that this doesn't hold true. In some instances no offers would be better than a low offer and an all round better experience as a seller. 

We are actively considering solutions and welcome further feedback here or via help@bikehub.co.za

Lekker response. Too many spending a lot of time at the PC trying their luck like second hand car dealers in Kew

4 hours ago, thebob said:

@Mattas a first step, would it be possible to have a check box or similar when creating an advert to say whether the person posting the advert is happy for dealers to make an offer?

Yes!

2 hours ago, ACE Cycles said:

A reseller simply buys a bike on the hub from a seller and the resells it at a profit.

A dealer's role is more complex, often the 3rd wheel in a deal. In my case, bike shops contact me for a trade offer, the offer gets worked into the new bike price. The client gets a new bike and was able to trade his old bike in. The shop makes a sale and the dealer gets stock to sell at a profit

Kind of like a "trader"in cars? When you trade in a car it also end this way. 

[i24]

11 hours ago, corrie.kuilder said:

I have a question for admin,and hope it will be answered. BH being a public forum, and platform for goods being sold by dealers ect, how many dealers comply with the second-hand goods act 6/2009, whereby any registered business owner must have a certificate for dealing in second-hand goods. This is also a way to protect potential buyers from buying stolen and or suspicious goods. Do admin request some sort of proof that dealers are registered, and that they actually have a Certificate for dealing in second-hand goods, because Bicycles and any part thereof are considered Schedule 1 goods.

 

shg_act_6_2009.pdf 228.24 kB · 18 downloads

I have a look at that document. I note

Section 23.(1)(d) reads:

"No dealer may deliver goods acquired by him or her to a person or change the form or alter the appearance thereof until after the expiration date of a period of seven days from the date of acquisition thereof"

 

3 hours ago, Kom said:

i was watching this ad for the last couple of days

before --> https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/624393/s-works-epic

after --> https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/560962/s-works-epic-l-12spd-axs-carbonwheels-sidsl

At least bikegarage left the power meter installed, and at face value, R70k out and R75k in is not a crazy markup. Im sure the price traded up front was probs closer to R50k, but that wouldve been any hubbers chance to take.

The first add has a datestamp "2 days ago". The 2nd one has a datestamp "5 hours ago". This is not proof, but definitely evidence, of a contravention of the Second-Hand Goods Act, 2009.

Note that Act allows for imprisonment for up to 10 years for an infringement of section 23. Schedule 1 specifically lists "Bicycles or any part or accessory thereof".

😳

[MTBRIDER1234]

I haven't interacted with any threads recently, as I have felt that none of them were important enough/I could add more value than what had already been said.

But this is different. Anyone who has been on bikehub for a few years may remember my run-in with a dealer and his associate/business partner last year. This was a time before the "bring back the classifieds comments" thread was shut down.

I was very vocal and let the dealer(s) know that what they were charging was BS, and I even showed them many ads of the same bike for tens of thousands less. But they didn't give a sh*t. They just want to make money, at what cost? I don't know, but it seems they are happy to do it at the cost of their reputation and the likelihood of a *** review after the buyer realizes they have grossly overpaid.

Not most - but some of the dealers have no understanding of the mechanical side of bikes. They will write bogus claims, for example, drivetrain only has 500km on it, when you can see the anodizing on the cassette is worn off and the chainring looks like it has been around the globe more than once.

Just my 2 cents. Dealers please be courteous and don't post a hundred ads of the same clapped, overpriced bike.

[mecheng89]

8 hours ago, 117 said:

You dont have to be a premium member to get the email alerts, currently. 

A simpler way will be to open the comments up again on the adverts, that way you could cry foul if an advert is washed up the monetary department

 

[Theunissa]

Not gonna read all the complaints. But I have had better luck in life buying from a dealer than privately. Private if you sell me rubbish it is what it is. If I buy from a dealer I'm more likely to get money back. But them every cycling thi g I bought on the hub was private and good. So private buying is maybe cheaper but higher risk. Dealer less risk but higher price. If I'm not happy about a price amd want I will try to negotiate. If no I move on. If I feel it's belaglik move on. I habe bought things others have seen as belaglik and others have bought stuff I feel is belaglik. " 

[Me rida my bicycle]

9 hours ago, Matt said:

We're following the debate with interest.

We've always taken the stance of the market will decide in terms of the price a given seller will accept and what a buyer is willing to pay. And we still stand by that with respect to the general debate about resellers, pricing, etc.

However, feedback here around lowball offers in particular and an influx of recent complaints about these does have us questioning how to better approach this. 

Historically the assumption on our side was that on balance "a low offer is better than no offers", but feedback here and from users directly makes it very clear that this doesn't hold true. In some instances no offers would be better than a low offer and an all round better experience as a seller. 

We are actively considering solutions and welcome further feedback here or via help@bikehub.co.za

You guys really put effort into making buying and selling better for the members. There will always be low ballers as will there be people who over value what they have. So not every low ball offer is in actuality a low ball offer but might be more market related. 

On another note the Bikehub pay works awesomely! I have never thought I would buy something unseen but I did twice in the last month and using this takes all the gamble out of it. Thanks guys 👌🏻

[Eugene]

Isn't this the free-market system? The fundamental basis of capitalism. The freedom to trade. 

How does one go about limiting the markups these 'dealers' are placing on the goods that they are buying for resale? Price controls? Banning them? Shutting them down? 

None of these options are legal. This is South Africa, not North Korea. 

If somebody beats you to that bargain, so be it.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Eugene
Spelling

[NotSoBigBen]

1 minute ago, Eugene said:

Isn't this the free-market system? The fundamental basis of capitalism. The freedom to trade. 

How does one go about limiting the markups these 'dealers' are placing on the goods that they are buying for resale? Price controls? Banning them? Shutting them down? 

None of these options are legal. This is South Africa, not North Korea. 

If somebody beats you to that bargain, so be it.

Yes that sense of some kind of 'community' along with many other things in life has been lost ... each man/woman for themselves I guess 🤔 

[Eugene]

24 minutes ago, NotSoBigBen said:

Yes that sense of some kind of 'community' along with many other things in life has been lost ... each man/woman for themselves I guess 🤔 

A friend of mine was retrenched, he put food on the table by buying and selling bike stuff, most of which came from here. 

I guess, for him, his family was more important than the sense of community