Is the 2nd hand market dead?

[Shebeen]

4 hours ago, LazyTrailRider said:

An update on what the market's like out there. I sold two bikes in the last week. They were listed for a week.

1. 2022 Stumpjumper Evo - Cost R85k last year, current new price R89k. It's got a brand new Fox 36 and wheelset/tyres on it from the new Levo I bought, so it's close to as it was new. 300km on the clock, sold it for R60k.
2. 2021 Levo SL - Stock except for an upgraded carbon bar and brand new Code RS levers (Guide R was stock). 360km on the clock, sold it for R86k.

To the armchair economists (there were some claims that used bikes have a ceiling of R40k 😉) - make of this what you will.

R30k value drop on 300km. That's quite a haircut, obviously potential warranty transfer issues but shows you the value around for a discerning buyer 

[LazyTrailRider]

12 hours ago, Shebeen said:

R30k value drop on 300km. That's quite a haircut, obviously potential warranty transfer issues but shows you the value around for a discerning buyer 

R25k for +-16 months of use is R1500/month. This is perfectly fine. The R69/km academically looks less sensible, but I still feel like it was worth every cent!

Update: I got the mileage wrong, it's 360km not 300km, for what it's worth...

Edited June 1, 2023 by LazyTrailRider

[BaGearA]

If you measure how much your bicycle costs you per km 

 

 

just stop cycling, this sport isn't for you

[LazyTrailRider]

1 hour ago, BaGearA said:

If you measure how much your bicycle costs you per km 

 

 

just stop cycling, this sport isn't for you

Not going to do this for the total cost over the last 25 years, don't really feel like crying... 😆

[Shebeen]

12 hours ago, LazyTrailRider said:

R25k for +-16 months of use is R1500/month. This is perfectly fine. The R69/km academically looks less sensible, but I still feel like it was worth every cent!

Update: I got the mileage wrong, it's 360km not 300km, for what it's worth...

ok. Clearly we're different. Riding a bike ~20km per month is not really "using" it (Maybe if you went on some business rides and it helped to close some deals, then it totally paid for itself).

but now I'm starting to sound like a tjop. Any high end bike loses it's value the second it is rolled out the shop window, same as cars. If it makes you happy and you were happy on both the day you bought it and satisfied with selling it then the $$$ calcs don't matter.

 

 

[LazyTrailRider]

55 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

ok. Clearly we're different. Riding a bike ~20km per month is not really "using" it (Maybe if you went on some business rides and it helped to close some deals, then it totally paid for itself).

but now I'm starting to sound like a tjop. Any high end bike loses it's value the second it is rolled out the shop window, same as cars. If it makes you happy and you were happy on both the day you bought it and satisfied with selling it then the $$$ calcs don't matter.

 

 

I had this bike purely because I LOVE riding it. I didn't get it to put miles on it, its sole purpose was quality over quantity for my typical 16-20km techy singletrack/flowtrail rides. I have a Diverge which I put 3700km on over the last 3 years, that is more "using it" (even though I know it's still very low mileage).

Look, I made the calc purely for trivia's sake. I've been riding bikes my entire life. This one made me happy when I bought it, happy every time I rode it, and I'm happy with what I got for it. Bicycles clearly make the world a better place!

Edited June 1, 2023 by LazyTrailRider
Typo fix

[MilkManMike]

None of my business really, but I must say I am curious. Why on earth would you be selling a bike that has seen so little use. It’s literally not even run in yet. If you realise riding isn’t your thing, I get it, but since your active here, I’m assuming your still into the sport. Surely you would get better value out if actually just riding those bikes, over upgrading them. (Edit: see you answered this the post above, we posted pretty much the same time)

 

My personal take on the used market is this: I joined this site to look for a good deal on a used trail bike, but after lots of searching, I decided to buy new instead. I think there are some good deals on the used market below R40k, but anything above that, I would rather shop new. New deals on new bikes are starting to filter through as prices normalise after the totally skewed market conditions during covid… but guys selling their used bikes are trying to recoup money based on overinflated purchase prices from two or three years back, so the prices on the classifieds are remaining pretty high relative to new prices.

When looking at spending 65k on a used bike with the potential risks involved, and uncertainty about warranty claims if something major goes wrong, or spending R75k on a similar brand new bike, with none of those concerns, I will buy new every time. I think the further up the price chain you go, the more this decision flexes towards new…

Edited June 1, 2023 by MilkManMike

[Shebeen]

42 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

ok. Clearly we're different.

27 minutes ago, LazyTrailRider said:

I had this bike purely because I LOVE riding it. I didn't get it to put miles on it, its sole purpose was quality over quantity for my typical 16-20km techy singletrack/flowtrail rides. I have a Diverge which I put 3700km on over the last 3 years, this is more "using it (even though I know it's still very low mileage).

Look, I made the calc purely for trivia's sake. I've been riding bikes my entire life. This one made me happy when I bought it, happy every time I rode it, and I'm happy with what I got for it. Bicycles clearly make the world a better place!

clearly we're not as different as I thought!

 

[although you have mentioned 3 different #spez models so people will judge you on that too!]

[MTBRIDER1234]

27 minutes ago, MilkManMike said:

None of my business really, but I must say I am curious. Why on earth would you be selling a bike that has seen so little use. It’s literally not even run in yet. If you realise riding isn’t your thing, I get it, but since your active here, I’m assuming your still into the sport. Surely you would get better value out if actually just riding those bikes, over upgrading them. (Edit: see you answered this the post above, we posted pretty much the same time)

 

My personal take on the used market is this: I joined this site to look for a good deal on a used trail bike, but after lots of searching, I decided to buy new instead. I think there are some good deals on the used market below R40k, but anything above that, I would rather shop new. New deals on new bikes are starting to filter through as prices normalise after the totally skewed market conditions during covid… but guys selling their used bikes are trying to recoup money based on overinflated purchase prices from two or three years back, so the prices on the classifieds are remaining pretty high relative to new prices.

When looking at spending 65k on a used bike with the potential risks involved, and uncertainty about warranty claims if something major goes wrong, or spending R75k on a similar brand new bike, with none of those concerns, I will buy new every time. I think the further up the price chain you go, the more this decision flexes towards new…

I understand that buying new is less daunting if you are a beginner/don't have the desire (or time) to work on your own bike

In my experience, you get way better spec 2nd hand, and if you know how to work on bikes, fixing any slight issues is very easy.

I bought a frame and rear shock last year for a very good deal from an employee at PYGA who had just upgraded to the MOBU. All it took was a simple aircan service, which took me 20 minutes at a leisurely pace. I then got some 2nd hand curas. I completely flushed them, took the pistons out and cleaned all the seals. The lyrik I got was dialled, and it just had the charger 2.1 rebuilt a month before I bought it.

All this cost me half of what the bike costs new, with better spec fork, brakes, wheels and seatstays. Additionally, the bars, wheels, tires, cranks, drivetrain (except the cassette) was brand new. No matter how you flip it, a saving of 50k is always lekker.

 

[MilkManMike]

1 hour ago, MTBRIDER1234 said:

I understand that buying new is less daunting if you are a beginner/don't have the desire (or time) to work on your own bike

In my experience, you get way better spec 2nd hand, and if you know how to work on bikes, fixing any slight issues is very easy.

I bought a frame and rear shock last year for a very good deal from an employee at PYGA who had just upgraded to the MOBU. All it took was a simple aircan service, which took me 20 minutes at a leisurely pace. I then got some 2nd hand curas. I completely flushed them, took the pistons out and cleaned all the seals. The lyrik I got was dialled, and it just had the charger 2.1 rebuilt a month before I bought it.

All this cost me half of what the bike costs new, with better spec fork, brakes, wheels and seatstays. Additionally, the bars, wheels, tires, cranks, drivetrain (except the cassette) was brand new. No matter how you flip it, a saving of 50k is always lekker.

 

I hear you, and yes, definitely bargains to be had, if you buy smart etc, but also risks to be had, and finding those bargains takes time. When your young, you tend to have lots of time, and less money… but as that ratio changes, time becomes expensive. I assure you I can maintain and work on my own bikes with great skill, and I have all the right tools as well. But I have reached a point in my life where I enjoy riding my bikes a lot more than I do working on them. So I got over my fear of letting others work on my bikes, and rather decided to build up a relationship with a trusty local bike shop, so I can focus my time on the fun stuff, and let them deal with the less fun stuff.

 

I don’t fool myself into thinking anything is a good deal when it comes to bikes, it’s literally a stupidly expensive hobby. But I’m at a point where I don’t want to deal with problems if at all possible. So I would gladly forked out 20-30% more and buy new, and get the peace of mind that comes with that. I would consider buying used again maybe, if the price was 50% or more less than the new price… but until the gap closes between people trying to recoup the money spent during the price hikes in the boom of covid, the difference between new and used just isn’t worth it for me, and I think many others. 
 

The amount of resellers also around these days doesn’t help the used market much either…

Also, I don’t by bikes expecting to sell them on again, so I am not bothered about losing “resale” value. I made peace with the money lost at purchase time. Too many “cyclists” are also trying to be bike traders in the side, or wanting to upgrade every year or two, and expect to get a good trade in on their old bikes, that drives the consumerism in biking. If everyone just road more and traded less, the whole industries pricing would come back into check, both new and used.

Edited June 1, 2023 by MilkManMike

[MTBRIDER1234]

17 minutes ago, MilkManMike said:

I hear you, and yes, definitely bargains to be had, if you buy smart etc, but also risks to be had, and finding those bargains takes time. When your young, you tend to have lots of time, and less money… but as that ratio changes, time becomes expensive. I assure you I can maintain and work on my own bikes with great skill, and I have all the right tools as well. But I have reached a point in my life where I enjoy riding my bikes a lot more than I do working on them. So I got over my fear of letting others work on my bikes, and rather decided to build up a relationship with a trusty local bike shop, so I can focus my time on the fun stuff, and let them deal with the less fun stuff.

 

I don’t fool myself into thinking anything is a good deal when it comes to bikes, it’s literally a stupidly expensive hobby. But I’m at a point where I don’t want to deal with problems if at all possible. So I would gladly forked out 20-30% more and buy new, and get the peace of mind that comes with that. I would consider buying used again maybe, if the price was 50% or more less than the new price… but until the gap closes between people trying to recoup the money spent during the price hikes in the boom of covid, the difference between new and used just isn’t worth it for me, and I think many others. 
 

The amount of resellers also around these days doesn’t help the used market much either…

Also, I don’t by bikes expecting to sell them on again, so I am not bothered about losing “resale” value. I made peace with the money lost at purchase time. Too many “cyclists” are also trying to be bike traders in the side, or wanting to upgrade every year or two, and expect to get a good trade in on their old bikes, that drives the consumerism in biking. If everyone just road more and traded less, the whole industries pricing would come back into check, both new and used.

I understand where you are coming from, but I can't afford to buy new. I can only work on the weekend, and there is no way that I would be riding the bike I am if it was new.

I also save thousands working on my own bike, and you can service your suspension super often for literally pennies. Servicing is a hidden cost that most people don't consider when buying a bike for sure.

I am a bit different to you in the sense that I don't want to lose a crazy amount during resale. New bikes depreciate more than a Maserati, and I simply can't afford to have my most expensive asset depreciate like that. Hence why I buy 2nd hand, so you only lose a bit when it comes time to resell.

If you know what you are doing and have a lot of time/patience, building up a bike from 2nd hand parts can be cheaper than buying a 2nd hand complete. It also allows you to better check the condition of every component. It becomes more expensive when people don't have the skills and means to build it themselves, and they have to pay someone to do all the work.

[LazyTrailRider]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

[although you have mentioned 3 different #spez models so people will judge you on that too!]

Judge away! 😜

[dasilvarsa]

26 minutes ago, LazyTrailRider said:

Judge away! 😜

My Biggest Problem with this is deciding on which bike 2 ride.

Do you have a Short Travel Trails Bike, Normally Aspirated Medium. ?

Edited June 1, 2023 by dasilvarsa

[Headshot]

46 minutes ago, LazyTrailRider said:

Judge away! 😜

I hope you have the matching sokkies, shoes, top and helmet or its a fail 🙂 

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, MTBRIDER1234 said:

I understand where you are coming from, but I can't afford to buy new. I can only work on the weekend, and there is no way that I would be riding the bike I am if it was new.

I also save thousands working on my own bike, and you can service your suspension super often for literally pennies. Servicing is a hidden cost that most people don't consider when buying a bike for sure.

I am a bit different to you in the sense that I don't want to lose a crazy amount during resale. New bikes depreciate more than a Maserati, and I simply can't afford to have my most expensive asset depreciate like that. Hence why I buy 2nd hand, so you only lose a bit when it comes time to resell.

If you know what you are doing and have a lot of time/patience, building up a bike from 2nd hand parts can be cheaper than buying a 2nd hand complete. It also allows you to better check the condition of every component. It becomes more expensive when people don't have the skills and means to build it themselves, and they have to pay someone to do all the work.

guess it depends on what you value your own time. there was a guy on this thread (or another) who was going on about how he had saved so much money on his cycling hobby as he spends hours looking for bargains. He didn't realise what he was writing.

 

[Shebeen]

what do you guys think this cost 18 years ago? Top of the range bike was ~R8-10k, so I'm guessing R2k for the fork? has held value very well!

 

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/mountain-bike-forks/646658/fox-rl-fork-26er-100mm-travel-qr