Is a Bike Fitter Enough?

[ChrisF]

1 hour ago, Ncayi said:

I have seen one already and that's what they said. Hip imbalance, weak hamstrings glutes and quads can be contributing factors, so I am working on that stuff. The bio also indicated that it may be a good idea to see a podiatrist. However, I need to be sure that whatever treatment I pursue takes into account my cycling hence my interest in getting a bike fit.

Ps. I don't want to be seeing multiple people for issues that could be addressed by one person, hence my original question. But I have more clarity on how to proceed now. What has been interesting though is the public perception concerning many "experts". Bio believes chiropractors are a scam, some people swear that physiotherapists are a waste of money and bike fitters are equivalent to "pig **** merchants" (Game of Thrones reference).  So what is the average dude with a dad body and weak FTP supposed to believe?

 

 

The human body is an amazing machine .... and horribly complex to find the true cause of multiple symptoms ....

 

2018 .... I was lucky that my initial issues resulted from an undersized bike (sold to me by a pro-cyclist turned concept store owner ... just another hack moving stock on his floor)

 

The bike fitter did a real check of my body and the issues relating to a person that had been inactive for nearly two decades.  The new bike was set up, and two tweak sessions followed over the next 6 months.  That was good enough for me as a weekend rider.

 

And NO, this setup was not some cut-and-paste thing.

 

 

2020 .... torn meniscus and 20 years worth of arthritis .... I first went to a good physio, took her 15 minutes of checking before she said what she can do and what her concerns were .... two sessions later got a reference and did the scans that confirmed the torn meniscus.  Then off to the Bio ... what an eye opener !!!!

 

 

For those trying a comeback from decades of inactivity I now firmly believe a Bio is the route to go to systematically get your body back in shape.  VERY easy to over work "a set" of muscles doing only one sport .... Bio's knows their game and can add significant value.

 

Once your body is back in shape your optimal bike fit may well require do with some fine tuning.  Right now my road bike (on the trainer) is relatively a long stretched out setup (correct size bike according to all the sizing tables), and I am growing into it and enjoying it more and more.  My hardtail has a very nice neutral setup, while the dual suss now really feels short and up right (and it is the perfect size, and setup).   For ME the critical part of the setup is the saddle to pedal position, get this wrong and my knees let me know all about it !!

 

 

 

BUT .... do your homework, and go see specialists with a good reputation !!!  2015 I tried a Bio, and walked away after three sessions ....  The 2020 Bio was simply so much better !!!!

 

[ChrisF]

As this thread have drifted a bit ....

 

Any recommendations for a podiatrist in the Western Cape - with specific reference to cycling ?  Northern suburbs if possible

[The Ouzo]

Interesting enough I'm reading an article on Escape Collective and this is a quote from one of the paragraphs

Quote

I don’t know who originally coined the phrase, but we have a bicycle that is somewhat adjustable and a body that is somewhat adaptable. This means there isn’t necessarily a single right answer for bike fit, but typically a range of positions that the body will be able to adapt to. Working with a fitter who can give suggestions whilst listening to what the rider is experiencing can help improve the riding position. Ideally, any changes made are matched on the rider’s bike so they can test it on the road for several weeks to allow for any adaptation and ensure the changes were positive.

 

[Ncayi]

15 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

Interesting enough I'm reading an article on Escape Collective and this is a quote from one of the paragraphs

 

Might be a slight thread drift so bear with me.

I agree with the premise of how the process should unfold. My curiosity then would be should one pay for outcome or time spent? I know I might be opening up a can of worms that is subject to a lot of other factors.

example: when you call a plumber for a leak should it matter if they stay 5min or 3 hours?  or should an exchange of money occur once the leak is gone regardless of how much time they spent in your house?

Edited August 10, 2023 by Ncayi

[The Ouzo]

5 minutes ago, Ncayi said:

Might be a slight thread drift so bear with me.

I agree with the premise of how the process should unfold. My curiosity then would be should one pay for outcome or time spent? I know I might be opening up a can of worms that is subject to a lot of other factors.

example: when you call a plumber for a leak should it matter if they stay 5min or 3 hours?  or should an exchange of money occur once the leak is gone regardless of how much time they spent in your house?

now you're most definitely opening up a can of worms here.

What is your professional time worth ? 

When you take your car to a mechanic, they charge by the hour ? 

When you go to the doctor, they bill you for that time. Should that solution not work and you have to go back again, they will bill you again.

What is your long term health worth ? You have flat feet with added complications caused by that, I would not mess around with cookie cutter solutions, you need something customised to YOUR issues.

[Frosty]

Don’t think of a bike fit as a once off; it should be a relationship with the fitter. If they’re good, they will help adjust when needed, especially tweaking here and there. However, time is money and each person deserves to recover their time for services rendered.

On the bike setup, just because it’s comfortable now doesn’t mean it will prevent long term injury 20-30 years from now. I’ve seen people shim their cleats because they have a so-called leg imbalance. Dropping the saddle brought their hips level and the shim was no longer needed.

I’ve seen it in another sport too, where the person over compensates for one setup issue which then causes another issue. 

[Ncayi]

8 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

now you're most definitely opening up a can of worms here.

What is your professional time worth ? 

When you take your car to a mechanic, they charge by the hour ? 

When you go to the doctor, they bill you for that time. Should that solution not work and you have to go back again, they will bill you again.

What is your long term health worth ? You have flat feet with added complications caused by that, I would not mess around with cookie cutter solutions, you need something customised to YOUR issues.

I definitely don't take any half measure when it concerns my health don't get me wrong. I will still see a professional and pay.

But apart from being a cyclist, I am a social scientist with an interest in economics and consumer behaviour. So this kind of discourse often intrigues me.

That's why I decided to take the question away from home a bit. Should I still pay that plumber even though I still hear the tap dancing of the H20 as it drips from the pipe damaging my expensive wooden laminated floor? 

I am taking into account the numerous undertones of scepticism communicated in this thread about "plumbers"

Edited August 10, 2023 by Ncayi

[Ncayi]

5 minutes ago, Frosty said:

it should be a relationship

That's my general approach with Bike shops as well, I am what you call a loyal customer till you do something that indicates you no longer have any need for my hard-earned money. 

[Lynskey]

6 hours ago, Ncayi said:

That's my general approach with Bike shops as well, I am what you call a loyal customer till you do something that indicates you no longer have any need for my hard-earned money. 

I have almost run out of shops. Eventually if you have been riding long enough someone in said shop will let you down.

[DieselnDust]

7 hours ago, Ncayi said:

Might be a slight thread drift so bear with me.

I agree with the premise of how the process should unfold. My curiosity then would be should one pay for outcome or time spent? I know I might be opening up a can of worms that is subject to a lot of other factors.

example: when you call a plumber for a leak should it matter if they stay 5min or 3 hours?  or should an exchange of money occur once the leak is gone regardless of how much time they spent in your house?

A ships captain has a problem with one of the engines. His engineers can't fix it so he calls in some help from the engine manufacturer. They send him an old guy who urns up with a small bag with hammers of different shapes and sizes.

He gets to work tapping here and tapping there and after an hour he tells the captain to give the order to fire up the engines. The captain reluctantly obliges and sure enough the engines fire up and run smoothly.

The old man hands him the bills:

$30,000-00

 

"What this is outrageous, you were here for less than an hour and all you did was tap here and there and hammer there and here. What am I paying for..??!!!"

" dear captain, are your engines running?"

"yes, they are!"

"then captain you are paying $300 dollars for my hour of labour and $29700 for me to know how to tap, where to tap and when to hammer."

The captain paid the least for the time

he paid mostly for knowledge and experience for a satisfactory result.

so there's two components.....

 

 

 

[ChrisF]

18 minutes ago, Lynskey said:

I have almost run out of shops. Eventually if you have been riding long enough someone in said shop will let you down.

 

True enough ...

 

In fairness, I give them a 2nd even a 3rd chance .... we all have a bad day ....

 

 

Now I ask Mark if he can fit in my bike for a major service .... he will then either take it, or ask that I bring it after the next big event as he is working late into the night to service bikes for the next event.

 

On the flip side .... when I pop in with an urgent repar I get my bike that afternoon.

[J Wakefield]

1 hour ago, Lynskey said:

I have almost run out of shops. Eventually if you have been riding long enough someone in said shop will let you down.

You seem to have bad experiences with service delivery inside the cycling world 

[SwissVan]

On 8/9/2023 at 2:42 PM, Lynskey said:

He was the fella I saw. Rude, obnoxious and arrogant are the words that come to mind. That was my experience with him. 

Some people including well educated ones have the people skills of a piranha and sometimes you just need to suck it up to benefit from their knowledge…. You don’t have to socialize with him.

jeroen imo is a you describe him, talking from personal experience when he was still an elite level xco racer back in the 1990’s

 

[NotSoBigBen]

Off topic but I had this long post typed up about people but I know its wasted here and elsewhere 

Suffice to say that comments like 'sooner or later they all let you down' get my back up! I assume those who say things like that have never made a mistake or a slip up ever or even forgotten something nor have the businesses, industries etc they are in? But hey that bike shop they better be 100% 'on point', as the cool kids say, every minute of every day

My Dad, bless his soul, told me when I was a young man that had just made a serious mistake at work after only working half a year or so

"The person who never made a mistake is either unemployed or wearing a chicken costume handing out flyers at the robot"

Lest I forget, don't mind me I'm old and grumpy 😛

[Lynskey]

9 hours ago, J Wakefield said:

You seem to have bad experiences with service delivery inside the cycling world 

Yes. You are correct. I have now found the right mechanic for "me". I sit and talk to him while he works on my bike. No *** no story. I am happy to pay for good service. I am not happy to pay for stupidity. Seems there is a lot of that around here. You do you boss. I will do me. I fall out with a lot of people. I don't like lies either. My world is small but the people in it are pretty much all my best friends. 

[Lynskey]

3 hours ago, SwissVan said:

Some people including well educated ones have the people skills of a piranha and sometimes you just need to suck it up to benefit from their knowledge…. You don’t have to socialize with him.

jeroen imo is a you describe him, talking from personal experience when he was still an elite level xco racer back in the 1990’s

 

I wouldn't have minded if the fit fitted. It hurt my back. To the degree I couldn't sleep. So I did my own fit. Now I get 8 good hours every night. As so many times mentioned here. No every fish is for every pond.