Petition. Woodstock cycle lane

[LBKloppers]

I will keep it short, but I think some points should be addressed somehow.

I just returned from Dublin Ireland. That is a medieval city and there are no 18m roads. Yet, there are dedicated cycling lanes wherever it is possible. In some places, the lanes are just painted, but more often it is a path separated from the main road by a curb. And the Irish complain a lot about the little things, so thinking of riding on the pedestrian side of the path will definitely get somebody grab you by the arm and seriously informing you it is illegal! Therefore, pedestrians and cyclists are catered for as it forms part of their aim to remove many vehicles from the city simply because they like the old design. There is no Argus cycle tour to fund this!

Talking about the Argus. Wasn't the Argus tour's original goal to protest the absence of cycling features/infrastructure? After I don't know how many years running this "the biggest timed event in the world" and the council bragging about how much the Argus brings to the Cape's kitty, how much changed other than a couple of lines painted on some roads? When I used to stay in the Cape, I was often frustrated by the lack of provision at the intersections. It is like a cyclist needs to levitate over the intersections until there is a new cycling lane painted on the other side. And on the topic of developing with cycling in mind, when Giel Basson was upgraded and extended it was the ideal opportunity to get a dedicated cycle lane in place. They didn't.

If an old medieval city can plan and accommodate bicycles and pedestrians, why not Cape Town? 

 

 

[dave303e]

2 minutes ago, LBKloppers said:

I will keep it short, but I think some points should be addressed somehow.

I just returned from Dublin Ireland. That is a medieval city and there are no 18m roads. Yet, there are dedicated cycling lanes wherever it is possible. In some places, the lanes are just painted, but more often it is a path separated from the main road by a curb. And the Irish complain a lot about the little things, so thinking of riding on the pedestrian side of the path will definitely get somebody grab you by the arm and seriously informing you it is illegal! Therefore, pedestrians and cyclists are catered for as it forms part of their aim to remove many vehicles from the city simply because they like the old design. There is no Argus cycle tour to fund this!

Talking about the Argus. Wasn't the Argus tour's original goal to protest the absence of cycling features/infrastructure? After I don't know how many years running this "the biggest timed event in the world" and the council bragging about how much the Argus brings to the Cape's kitty, how much changed other than a couple of lines painted on some roads? When I used to stay in the Cape, I was often frustrated by the lack of provision at the intersections. It is like a cyclist needs to levitate over the intersections until there is a new cycling lane painted on the other side. And on the topic of developing with cycling in mind, when Giel Basson was upgraded and extended it was the ideal opportunity to get a dedicated cycle lane in place. They didn't.

If an old medieval city can plan and accommodate bicycles and pedestrians, why not Cape Town? 

 

 

because it is a first world city not a wannabe first world city that epitomizes the imbalance in equality in this very developing country.

We sit here moaning about a cycle lane because you are using a way to commute safely in a semi recreational manner. Meanwhile this is in a city where majority of the labour force has to live nearly 20km away(out of reasonable cycle commute range) in a slum which consistently happens to be home to some of the highest murder rates in the country. That cycle lane doesn't serve those who need it, and those who need it probably have much bigger issues to worry about in life.

Why are we not petitioning for more train routes and cheaper train fares to get people from the flats into the City cheaper, easier and safer?

[Mamil]

27 minutes ago, dave303e said:

because it is a first world city not a wannabe first world city that epitomizes the imbalance in equality in this very developing country.

We sit here moaning about a cycle lane because you are using a way to commute safely in a semi recreational manner. Meanwhile this is in a city where majority of the labour force has to live nearly 20km away(out of reasonable cycle commute range) in a slum which consistently happens to be home to some of the highest murder rates in the country. That cycle lane doesn't serve those who need it, and those who need it probably have much bigger issues to worry about in life.

Why are we not petitioning for more train routes and cheaper train fares to get people from the flats into the City cheaper, easier and safer?

Yes exactly - there must be an integrated non-motorized transport plan that deprioritizes motor vehicles in favour of human powered vehicles and public transport. It's a much bigger issue that how hard it is to get to to Camps bay so I can time time trial up to Llandudno.

[CapSizer]

Much has been written on this topic.  I am currently reading Dan Piatkowski's "Bicycle City".  To be honest, so far he hasn't mentioned anything that I haven't read elsewhere, but I guess it is a good summary.  Long story short ... it helps to frame the question as "How do we make the city a place that works for people, rather than for cars."  That leads to concepts of livable cities and equitable access.  Bikelanes are a big part of making all that happen, but not an end in themselves.  Cape Town's current approach is basically just pretending to do the right things.

[Naidy]

I ride this route daily, commute to work and back. I really don't think drivers care that there is a bike lane, especially Uber and Taxi drivers and they will stop on the lane because its easier for them, some of the lane is even parked full so that's kind of useless. So to keep my **** together daily I just go around. I feel like @DJR, all I want to do is get through safely, bike lane or not. 

But I will sign the petition. 

 

[dave303e]

30 minutes ago, CapSizer said:

Much has been written on this topic.  I am currently reading Dan Piatkowski's "Bicycle City".  To be honest, so far he hasn't mentioned anything that I haven't read elsewhere, but I guess it is a good summary.  Long story short ... it helps to frame the question as "How do we make the city a place that works for people, rather than for cars."  That leads to concepts of livable cities and equitable access.  Bikelanes are a big part of making all that happen, but not an end in themselves.  Cape Town's current approach is basically just pretending to do the right things.

it comes back to a bigger issue. The actual issue with Cape town. It was settled in the wrong place and the Geography means it cannot be fixed. Much like other cities like Monaco and other cities going through housing crisis.

 

[droo]

1 hour ago, Naidy said:

I ride this route daily, commute to work and back. I really don't think drivers care that there is a bike lane, especially Uber and Taxi drivers and they will stop on the lane because its easier for them, some of the lane is even parked full so that's kind of useless. So to keep my **** together daily I just go around. I feel like @DJR, all I want to do is get through safely, bike lane or not. 

But I will sign the petition. 

 

Agreed, a bike lane only works if it's enforced as a bike lane. As it stood before the resurfacing, it was a green stripe for cars and delivery scooters to stop in, so its absence makes absolutely no material difference.

In places where the lanes are separate from the roadway, they're either full of pedestrians, hawkers or motorcycles.

IMO the only thing that bike lanes do in CT is give ammo to people who feel that bikes shouldn't be on the road.

[CapSizer]

16 minutes ago, dave303e said:

it comes back to a bigger issue. The actual issue with Cape town. It was settled in the wrong place and the Geography means it cannot be fixed. Much like other cities like Monaco and other cities going through housing crisis.

 

I would respectfully beg to disagree with that statement.  Yes, the layout of the city is awkward and inefficient, but an efficient and comprehensive urban railway system would go a long way towards dealing with that.  NMT only works with very good public transit.  Biking works with public transit. Yes ... I know.  We don't do efficient.  But without quality public transit we are inevitably doomed to car hell.

[dave303e]

3 minutes ago, CapSizer said:

I would respectfully beg to disagree with that statement.  Yes, the layout of the city is awkward and inefficient, but an efficient and comprehensive urban railway system would go a long way towards dealing with that.  NMT only works with very good public transit.  Biking works with public transit. Yes ... I know.  We don't do efficient.  But without quality public transit we are inevitably doomed to car hell.

Look a good railway would make a big difference.

But take for example if the city was built around Langebaan as the harbour. It would be able to naturally grow in a lot of directions and you can have access from all round easily. You pay a lot to have that mountain there to look at.

[Shebeen]

Wasn't there some one on here who was involved with the green lines and those mini bumps? 

 

Personally this route is just bonkers to ride, and would need some hard engineering to change. Good luck to those who do it regularly

[CapSizer]

4 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Personally this route is just bonkers to ride, and would need some hard engineering to change. Good luck to those who do it regularly

Definitely agreed on the need for hard engineering, although many cities in the world have done exactly that ...  I keep looking at the Google Earth images and consistently fail to come up with a viable alternative route.   Having said all that, crazy as it is, I don't find it particularly intimidating, mostly because the traffic goes quite slowly.  I went down there by car yesterday, and it is easy to see why.  There are so many obstacles and threats (badly parked cars, pedestrians crossing anywhere, street vendors, heavy traffic, bergies, etc.) that there is no temptation to drive fast.  It is the clear wide open stroads, which invite drivers to go fast, that I fear. 

[The Ouzo]

9 minutes ago, CapSizer said:

Definitely agreed on the need for hard engineering, although many cities in the world have done exactly that ...  I keep looking at the Google Earth images and consistently fail to come up with a viable alternative route.   Having said all that, crazy as it is, I don't find it particularly intimidating, mostly because the traffic goes quite slowly.  I went down there by car yesterday, and it is easy to see why.  There are so many obstacles and threats (badly parked cars, pedestrians crossing anywhere, street vendors, heavy traffic, bergies, etc.) that there is no temptation to drive fast.  It is the clear wide open stroads, which invite drivers to go fast, that I fear. 

Is there an alternative route for motorised vehicles ? If so, they could turn the entire stretch of road into a boulevard of sorts, forcing motorised transport  to drive at a snails pace thereby making it much safer for NMT .

[Jewbacca]

2 hours ago, CapSizer said:

I would respectfully beg to disagree with that statement.  Yes, the layout of the city is awkward and inefficient, but an efficient and comprehensive urban railway system would go a long way towards dealing with that.  NMT only works with very good public transit.  Biking works with public transit. Yes ... I know.  We don't do efficient.  But without quality public transit we are inevitably doomed to car hell.

I don't think a good railway would do anything in Cape Town.

Our carcentric culture doesn't allow public transport a foot in the door. People simply don't go to places they can't park close to. A train station that exits onto a busy road is also a mess. 

There are many studies that show that first we need to remove cars from small areas and create 'people spaces'... When people see people walking, they immediately assume the space is safe to walk so will walk/inhabit that space. It's funny because carless areas also tend to be cleaner and less dirty.

Take away the 3 ton bubble of safety and people are forced to interact with their senses and their surroundings.

BUT...... It's not a thing in South Africa. It will take years of changing mentality and automatic carcentric behaviour.

Spending huge money of public transport infrastructure doesn't automatically create buy in. It will just mean more white elephants that require maintenance, which we know is not a strong point with the powers that be, especially if it only services a tiny segment of the population.

[The Ouzo]

1 minute ago, Jewbacca said:

I don't think a good railway would do anything in Cape Town.

Our carcentric culture doesn't allow public transport a foot in the door. People simply don't go to places they can't park close to. A train station that exits onto a busy road is also a mess. 

There are many studies that show that first we need to remove cars from small areas and create 'people spaces'... When people see people walking, they immediately assume the space is safe to walk so will walk/inhabit that space. It's funny because carless areas also tend to be cleaner and less dirty.

Take away the 3 ton bubble of safety and people are forced to interact with their senses and their surroundings.

BUT...... It's not a thing in South Africa. It will take years of changing mentality and automatic carcentric behaviour.

Spending huge money of public transport infrastructure doesn't automatically create buy in. It will just mean more white elephants that require maintenance, which we know is not a strong point with the powers that be, especially if it only services a tiny segment of the population.

also the taxi industry HATES any other form of public transport and will most likely sabotage anything new put in place.

[peepeekaitjie]

imagine if there was a lane that went directly into the CBD, exclusively for bicycles and pedestrians

 

oh wait, nevermind

[droo]

12 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I don't think a good railway would do anything in Cape Town.

Our carcentric culture doesn't allow public transport a foot in the door. People simply don't go to places they can't park close to. A train station that exits onto a busy road is also a mess. 

There are many studies that show that first we need to remove cars from small areas and create 'people spaces'... When people see people walking, they immediately assume the space is safe to walk so will walk/inhabit that space. It's funny because carless areas also tend to be cleaner and less dirty.

Take away the 3 ton bubble of safety and people are forced to interact with their senses and their surroundings.

BUT...... It's not a thing in South Africa. It will take years of changing mentality and automatic carcentric behaviour.

Spending huge money of public transport infrastructure doesn't automatically create buy in. It will just mean more white elephants that require maintenance, which we know is not a strong point with the powers that be, especially if it only services a tiny segment of the population.

Build it and they will come, I reckon.

There's a massive cohort who spend a lot more than they'd like (or can afford) on private transport simply because there's no workable alternative. Even just getting the existing railways up and running again would make a huge difference to the number of cars on the road, and I reckon most of these would be the beater ex-Uber mobile chicanes with a top speed of 40 and the situational awareness of a carpenter bee.

Back in the day (and you're old enough to remember this) the trains were packed at commute times, and weekly or monthly passes were way more affordable to the working classes than taxis or keeping a car running that should have been scrapped 10 years ago.