Events / Races and CSA membership

[Ed345]

I've only lived in South Africa for a year, and have been riding some of the races / events, but I'm still a little confused about the categories, CSA membership, and seeding for the starting batches at these events. Have I got this right....

Open Seeding groups are seeded according to previous results (times not postition), so should be similar level riders.

CSA membership groups (Veterans ages) are people who have paid extra for membership. Not seeded according to results so a mix of abilities.

I've only been in the Open Seeding groups so far, and have noticed passing lots of riders from the Veterans groups, but looking at the results, the fastest Veterans are normally fastest than the open seeding.

I'm finishing top 10 in the open seeding groups, should I be paying the membership fees for better racing in the Masters group?

The CSA website isn't totally clear but it looks like R250 membership + R75 provincial levy + R500 domestic race license + I need to join a cycle club. Is that right?

 

[Dazshell]

If you want to be up in the racing categories you will need a domestic racing license.  As you ride more races, those that use Finish Time will be included in your personal seeding ranking.  The reality is that Open seeded batches A and B of most races are as fast, if not faster, than most of the licensed Vets batches, so you will end up passing a lot of them, especially on the bigger races like CTCT, 947, etc.  If you can get yourself up into the 1A - 1 D batches, you will be riding with the racing snakes anyway.  If you want to podium and win cash prizes, you will need to have a racing license.

[betaboy]

The website hasn’t even been updated with Gravel been a thing! Wonder why funds are not allocated to do such a simple task! Yet they been taking “gravel” money for sometime now. Love to hear the excuses. I’m listening.

[Ed345]

36 minutes ago, Dazshell said:

If you want to podium and win cash prizes, you will need to have a racing license.

Not so motivated by podium and prizes, but looking for more focus on racing. My experience of the open seeded batches (mostly without any teams) has been a handful of people tactically racing for position, and the majority steadily sitting in the wheels going for a good time. 
 

Also, I’m a stay at home dad with limited riding time. Races have pretty much been my only outdoor riding for the last six months. Are there any clubs that are recommended that don’t cost much in fees and don’t mind if I can’t come on many rides?!

Edited April 9 by Ed345
typo

[DieselnDust]

48 minutes ago, Ed345 said:

I've only lived in South Africa for a year, and have been riding some of the races / events, but I'm still a little confused about the categories, CSA membership, and seeding for the starting batches at these events. Have I got this right....

Open Seeding groups are seeded according to previous results (times not postition), so should be similar level riders.

Open seeding is generally based on FinishTime or SASeeding index. Where you end up will be determined on your seeding index in theire systems.

48 minutes ago, Ed345 said:

CSA membership groups (Veterans ages) are people who have paid extra for membership. Not seeded according to results so a mix of abilities.

To be seeded in an Age group category you will need to meet a few criteria.

• you are seeded in one of one the recognised systems as a top 15% rider.in that age cat
• you have a day license for the event (purchased at entry) or a CSA Member
• If the event is run by a provincial body i.e. Western Cape Cycling or Gauteng cycling a Racing License may be required to race age category. It is only compulsory to have a racing license if you racing Jnr, U23 or Elite. For other categories, only a CSA Membership or day license is required

48 minutes ago, Ed345 said:

I've only been in the Open Seeding groups so far, and have noticed passing lots of riders from the Veterans groups, but looking at the results, the fastest Veterans are normally fastest than the open seeding.

You would need to be specific about the event here because sometimes there is the situation where a provincial event is doubling up with a commercial event for participants in a Provincial Road, XCO or XCM series to accrue points, Otherwise typically the Finishtime of SASeeding applies which means your scenario should not be the case

48 minutes ago, Ed345 said:

I'm finishing top 10 in the open seeding groups, should I be paying the membership fees for better racing in the Masters group?

This is entirely up to you. Often top 10 in Open will not translate into the age category.

48 minutes ago, Ed345 said:

The CSA website isn't totally clear but it looks like R250 membership + R75 provincial levy + R500 domestic race license + I need to join a cycle club. Is that right?

 

Too take out a racing license you need to be a member of a club.

To race age category a day license or CSA Membership is sufficient.

TO be eligible for national colours you will need a racing license. Note National colours are only consistently awarded to Jnr, U23 and Elite license holders. Age category winners will only be awarded National colours if available and the winner is  license holder

[Bub Marley]

I remember last year Racetec was set to shut down we were told to expect a brand new upgraded website. More than a year has passed and we’re still left with that shite of a website from FinishTime and Racetec website is still active. They clearly don’t care anymore. 

 

In other words everything is a mess. Different events use different timing. We now have FinishTime, Racetec, saseeding, myriad and much more. All different timing companies.

[Skubarra]

10 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

 

To race age category a day license or CSA Membership is sufficient.

TO be eligible for national colours you will need a racing license. Note National colours are only consistently awarded to Jnr, U23 and Elite license holders. Age category winners will only be awarded National colours if available and the winner is  license holder

For normal CSA membership you also need to be a club member?

Agree with the rest, I think racing license only really relevant if you want to compete for national colours or want to ride elites in a big event like CTCT. 

[milky4130]

6 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

For normal CSA membership you also need to be a club member?

Agree with the rest, I think racing license only really relevant if you want to compete for national colours or want to ride elites in a big event like CTCT. 

A racing license doesnt automatically guarantee a start in Elites at CTCT. You can take out a racing license specifically for Elite Category, 30-34, 35-39 even if you are 60 years old then that is still no guarantee you'll make it, you need to meet the index criteria too. It also means that you are a 60 year old Elite/SV for all races for the year. The Elites that have all of the above but dont meet index criteria get chucked in with the Racing Vets 40+ Category.

[ChrisF]

28 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

For normal CSA membership you also need to be a club member?

Agree with the rest, I think racing license only really relevant if you want to compete for national colours or want to ride elites in a big event like CTCT. 

 

Correct, I had to enter a club to register as a normal CSA member.

 

PS - The day licences vs becoming a annual member is a nobrainer if you do couple of races during a year.

[Ed345]

Clear as mud. 
There are clear advantages to running races and mass participation events together as a single event, but if you’re between Elite level and fun level it’s very confusing. 
There seem to be multiple systems that change across different races, and even after 6 people have helped explain it, I’m still unsure how it all applies to me. 
I guess I’ll pay the money, start in the veterans group, and see how it goes!

Edited April 9 by Ed345

[bleedToWin]

13 minutes ago, Ed345 said:

I’m still unsure how it all applies to me. 
I guess I’ll pay the money, start in the veterans group, and see how it goes!

Confusing, but you landed on the right square.

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, Skubarra said:

For normal CSA membership you also need to be a club member?

 

No you don’t. Apologies if I was unclear 

[Skubarra]

2 hours ago, milky4130 said:

A racing license doesnt automatically guarantee a start in Elites at CTCT. You can take out a racing license specifically for Elite Category, 30-34, 35-39 even if you are 60 years old then that is still no guarantee you'll make it, you need to meet the index criteria too. It also means that you are a 60 year old Elite/SV for all races for the year. The Elites that have all of the above but dont meet index criteria get chucked in with the Racing Vets 40+ Category.

Sure - what I maybe should have said is even with a very low index you would not (normally) be allowed to ride Elites at the CTCT unless you have a racing license as well. For most other races a low index is all you need to start in the front group. 

[betaboy]

…there’s a lot of interesting opinions and experiences here, someone needs to call Gayton my bra! Sport is his gig now.

[Jbr]

If you want podiums and cash prizes, find another sport

Also completely disagree with the 1A being the racing snakes, the snakes are in $, some of the older ones are in the top positions of the vets groups, like in any group there’s the fast ones at the front and the slow ones at the back, so yes, you will always pass guys front the group in front of you, doesn’t mean that your group is faster than that group, just that you are faster than the guys you are passing.

[Spinnekop]

1 minute ago, Jbr said:

If you want podiums and cash prizes, find another sport

Also completely disagree with the 1A being the racing snakes, the snakes are in $, some of the older ones are in the top positions of the vets groups, like in any group there’s the fast ones at the front and the slow ones at the back, so yes, you will always pass guys front the group in front of you, doesn’t mean that your group is faster than that group, just that you are faster than the guys you are passing.

Not when it gets to the Vets bunches.
You BUY your seeding if you are Vets.  To stick to that bunch is a whole different story.
But in essence, 80% of the vets (that start ahead of 1A) does not have the ability to stick with 1A on a tough coarse.