Riding up single track in Tokai

[mach7-7]

Meeting SANParks next week...

 

As I said before.. just read the correct thread. All the info is there. https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/103695-riding-up-the-downhills-at-tokai

 

The obvious difference between the two threads is which ST is being discussed. This thread includes all where the safety concern clearly pointed to the DH track only. It is really important to note the difference in classification, this will clear a lot of grey area as to where you may and may not ride up the ST. DJR has pointed it out.. and International code IS, BTW, the one to which Tokai abides. Like it or not.

 

If the level of conflict on all singletrack is enough to warrant a change in format, it will be considered. A simple suggestion will also do, starting a poll with one's own agenda in mind is non-progressive... look where we find ourselves.. AGAIN.

 

 

 

Despite all the good advice on the first page of this thread, the rant continues.

 

 

--- here is the outcome of the last discussion (bearing in mind the DH run was in question).

 

 

Posted 08 June 2011 - 07:05

 

Signage approved..

 

The new trail markings will be erected in the coming weeks but unfortunately cannot be regarded as a full one-way limitation as yet, it will justify the points that initiated this thread though.

 

Bottom line: Right of way is granted for descending riders. If you choose to climb any trail marked as 'downhill', you could be liable for any damage and/or injuries.

 

Please consider that this decision is out of necessity! User numbers have exploded and while we work on a solution for better trail use, your patience and general all-round sense will be appreciated.

 

Off-topic: language on the mountain. A number of complaints have been received. Please apply restraint where possible this is a family zoned trail and just basic respect for others is expected of every user.

 

Several other points were met with resounding approval in today's meeting.. good times ahead (thanks Koos)!!

 

---

 

 

Pain or Shine,

 

thanks for the response. I am well aware of the thread which you made reference to but that thread is filled with people's emotions and personal point of view. Can you please make reference to the official document in which you have posted these rules from?. I have been monitoring your responses from time to time and I can't help but feel that you attitude is somewhat non diplomatic and a little brash. I do not wish to offend you, but people cannot walk around with the myway or the hiway attitude.

 

So, please point us to the source of your information eg: Sanparks website or kindly post some mails with past correspondance between yourself and the Sanparks board. Its also important for me that whoever approaches the Sanparks does so in a way that addresses my interests as well as my fellow riders. Normally someone would be elected by a commitee. Like I said, I don't know how well you are connected but I suggest we contact Dan from iRide, a personal friend of mine, and awesome proactive chap with a vast experience in this matter with the correct attitude. Beleive it or not, not all people in this thread want to argue with eachother. A positive discussion yields more than a downright argument....

[Inusc]

Let me know when you want to go, I will show you a short-cut to Tokai

anytime Tankman except this weekend,How far is it from SW?

[(Deon)]

@Mach7-7, hang ten.. it won't take long to get the info you seek.

[(Deon)]

@Mach7-7

The following is an excerpt from the brochure I am holding in my hand. I just had to ask for one when purchasing a permit. If you really are interested in knowing the rules, you'll make some effort to knowing. Sars does not post everybody a copy of the amended bill, it is your responsibility as an operator to know the rules, a simple search will give good results.. Don't see why there should be any difference.

 

I don't take offence to your comment. Sometimes I am brash, but it will never go without an apology or acknowledgement. You pointed something out in your previous post that means more than the bickering here, that is the divide this sport is seeing... that is why I make referral to the thread, the one this thread repeats. There was a huge divide then and by you making that referral now, means that is what is happening again. The 'emotion' you point out should not be the reason you don't read the thread, it is the very reason you should be reading it.

 

The Hub is fast becoming the voice you seek. Take solace in the fact that the people in position to negotiate with Parks are reading it.. and responding. Ignore the guys who come here to argue, their points are often weak but is still enough to cause the thread to stray.

 

 

MTB CODE OF CONDUCT

The code of conduct below is printed in brochure form and made available to cyclists. It is also displayed on signs at key entry points.

 

Introduction

The way we ride today shapes mountain bike trail access tomorrow. Do your part to preserve and enhance our sport’s access and image by observing the following rules of the trail, formulated by IMBA, the International Mountain Bicycling Association. These rules are recognized around the world as the standard code of conduct for mountain bikers. Keep trails open by setting a good example of environmentally sound and socially responsible off-road cycling in helping us develop this plan.

 

Ride On Open Trails Only.

Respect trail and road closures (ask if uncertain); avoid trespassing on private land; obtain permits or other authorization as may be required. The way you ride will influence trail management decisions and policies.

 

Leave No Trace.

Be sensitive to the dirt beneath you. Recognise different types of soils and trail construction; practice low-impact cycling. Wet and muddy trails are more vulnerable to damage. When the trail bed is soft, consider other riding options. This also means staying on existing trails and not creating new ones. Do not cut switchbacks. Be sure to take out at least as much as you take in and that includes used tubes.

 

Control Your Bicycle!

Inattention for even a second can cause problems. Obey all bicycle speed regulations and recommendations.

 

Always Yield Trail.

Let your fellow trail users know you are coming. A friendly greeting or bell is considerate and works well; do not startle others. Show your respect when passing by slowing to a walking pace or even stopping. Anticipate other trail users around corners or in blind spots. Yielding means slow down, establish communication, be prepared to stop if necessary, and pass safely.

 

Never Scare Animals.

An unannounced approach, a sudden movement, or a loud noise startles all animals. This can be dangerous for you, others, and the animals. Give animals extra room and time to adjust to you. When passing horses use special care and follow directions from the horse riders (ask if uncertain). Disturbing wildlife is a serious offence. Leave gates as you found them, or as marked.

 

Plan Ahead.

Know your equipment, your ability, and the area in which you are riding—and prepare accordingly. Be self-sufficient at all times, keep your equipment in good repair, and carry necessary supplies for changes in weather or other conditions. A well-executed trip is a satisfaction to you and not a burden to others. Always wear a helmet and appropriate safety gear.

 

---

2 IMBA’s mission is to promote mountain bicycling that is environmentally sound and socially responsible. IMBA is a mountain biking advocacy group headquartered in Boulder; Colorado. IMBA has been involved in the development of similar plans all over the world. Please visit www.imba.com for more details.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Pain or Shine

[Tankman]

anytime Tankman except this weekend,How far is it from SW?

 

If we cycle up the downhill and down the singletrack, we'd be there in no time!

[Inusc]

If we cycle up the downhill and down the singletrack, we'd be there in no time!

haha

[#Pete#]

I ride some singletrack uphill but always give way to people coming down. In the jeeptracks I feel I have right of way going up and hold my line (as per IMBA), but gerenally ride on the LHS of the road.

 

I feel that ALL singletarck should be marked one way in Tokai - there are just too many people to allow bidirectional trails.

 

Most people would hate to have the fun of a downhill run interrupted by people riding up - me included, so I get out of the their way.

 

I expect all uphillers on singletrack to move out of my way too. When the track is relatively flat is becomes a problem (which way is actually uphill) - hence still need right of way signage.

 

IT IS TIME FOR ONE WAY SIGNAGE ON ALL TRACKS IN TOKAI!

Edited June 29, 2011 by #Pete#

[DJR]

I give up!

[Inusc]

I ride some singletrack uphill but always give way to people coming down. In the jeeptracks I feel I have right of way going up and hold my line (as per IMBA), but gerenally ride on the LHS of the road.

 

I feel that ALL singletarck should be marked one way in Tokai - there are just too many people to allow bidirectional trails.

 

Most people would hate to have the fun of a downhill trun interrupted by people riding up - me included, so I get out of the their way.

 

I expect all uphillers on singletrack to move out of my way too. When the track is relatively flat is becomes a problem - hence still need right of way signage.

 

IT IS TIME FOR ONE WAY SIGNAGE ON ALL TRACKS IN TOKAI!

Most peeps just ignore signs!

[(Deon)]

Pain or Shine,

 

thanks for the response. I am well aware of the thread which you made reference to but that thread is filled with people's emotions and personal point of view. Can you please make reference to the official document in which you have posted these rules from?. I have been monitoring your responses from time to time and I can't help but feel that you attitude is somewhat non diplomatic and a little brash. I do not wish to offend you, but people cannot walk around with the myway or the hiway attitude.

 

So, please point us to the source of your information eg: Sanparks website or kindly post some mails with past correspondance between yourself and the Sanparks board. Its also important for me that whoever approaches the Sanparks does so in a way that addresses my interests as well as my fellow riders. Normally someone would be elected by a commitee. Like I said, I don't know how well you are connected but I suggest we contact Dan from iRide, a personal friend of mine, and awesome proactive chap with a vast experience in this matter with the correct attitude. Beleive it or not, not all people in this thread want to argue with eachother. A positive discussion yields more than a downright argument....

 

Gosh, where did I offend you? Was it the "like it or not?" Was that ever a show-stopper!

 

You know, I have been in a PM message back-and-forth with the guy who started this thread. I sent him a PM in response to a comment that stood out in another thread as being scathing towards the efforts of the volunteers. Nothing like what you discussed elsewhere, your comment re volunteers made sense! (Remember the BKM analogy?) Your comment was food for thought, ..but the fact is, after the negotiations 10+ years ago, it was decided that the appointed volunteers will be the ones to look after the trails. My apologies if I made my response unclear.

 

After giving this guy a real good chance of changing his stand-point, having cautiously approached his frustration by taking it offline and presenting him with the info, he not only ended the conversation with a really obnoxious comment, and I quote, "Oh and if you are part of those guys moaning about cyclists riding up the `downhill`, one of them is me!", he then, moments later published this thread! Now with that attitude, what is he hoping to achieve?

 

His only point he made is the rules are not visible, a point that has been noted and is up for presentation at the next meeting.. and he knows that.

 

Look at the response this issue has gotten so far, see the rift it creates, yet the issue is actually solved in the prior thread. This mountain has never needed a 'network' of signs before, the numbers did not justify it. Yes, there was a time where everybody was just happy to get out and ride.. the trail etiquette was just known. The issue now is that etiquette is severely diluted with the countless welcome new people attracted by the awesome trails. This is logical, don't blame Parks for 'inefficiency' through lack of signage. The issues are now! And now is when we hear your points! You say, we listen, we present.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Pain or Shine

[DaLoCo]

Would it be more acceptable if I rode up the downhill on a 29'er

[#Pete#]

I give up!

I'm afraid I genuinly don't know anyone who feels like you do - everyone I ride with (and I mingle with the lycra not baggy crowd) consider the singletrack to be downhill priority (ride uphill, but at your own risk and preferably when the trails are quiet).

 

It's much safer and more fun that way. It now just needs a sign for you.

 

All trail centres in the UK have unidirectional trails for these reasons. Some up, some down. No reason Tokai can't have the same. Trails need to be build differently in any way for down and uphills. Steepness is one side of it, but switchbacks, camber, berms, etc all different.

Edited June 29, 2011 by #Pete#

[banna]

Would it be more acceptable if I rode up the downhill on a 29'er

 

I'm sure if you crash into a 20kg DH bike coming from the top, your big wheeler will be reduced to a normal bike.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I give up!

 

haha!

 

Please don't, DJR... Even though this thread has multiple arguments and "discussions" going on, there are still relevant points being made if we dig through all the sarcasm, failed wit and general ignorance that prevails in some posts.

 

Mach 7-7, yourself, Pain & a number of others have all raised relevant points, and Mach is right - the longer this debilitating debate goes on, the more we are separating our wonderful sport, and the eden that is Tokai.

 

I, for one, do not want this to happen.

 

I think most of the confusion is being borne out of the lack of differentiation between Downhill Singletrack (being a specific Downhill trail) and the other Singletrack sections. The 2 are not mutually exclusive, the Downhill being uni-directional and all the rest bi-directional.

 

A singletrack section that goes down a hill is not automatically a piece of Downhill singletrack. But, a singletrack section that has been designated as DOWNHILL, is automatically one way only - down.

 

I think that it is very important to note that the previous thread (as Pain or Shine pointed out) was catering to the dangers and legalities of riding up the trails that are designated as DOWNHILL trails. The previous thread was not catering to the rest of the singletrack sections, which are all, until further notice, bi-directional.

 

Mach - I for one would be glad to share a beer with you after a build / ride session. And keep on up with the ideas!

[DownhillingKing]

I can say one thing is for sure is that any XC rider will come off second best if crashing into a Downhill rider. MotoX armor and full face helmets provide a lot more protection than a bit of lycra and a piss pot. My Advice, don't ride up trails that have names with the word "Downhill" in.

[Chubba]

All in favour of trail schedules? i.e. No singletrack climbing between the times of 9am and 12pm.

 

Get your climb on early or late, but not when the bulk of the riders are descending.

 

No. I don’t agree with that!

I only have limited periods when I can ride Tokai and I want to ride the singletrack both ways.

 

We rode Tokai on Sunday and it was packed, had no issues riding up the single. It's about being polite, friendly and accommodating.

 

We got off a few times going up when guys were coming down, and we carried on riding up when guys stopped for us. No issue!

 

The only problem, is with the more arrogant types, that don’t acknowledge or greet when you stop for them, but that’s a personality flaw and will get a snide comment from me

Edited June 29, 2011 by Chubba