Lance Armstrong Banned and Stripped of TDF Titles

['Dale]

It's been dirty from inception and will be dirty long after I am lying in my coffin.

I doubt we will see this or any other sport as totally clean, ever.

The pressure to perform, break new world records, gets bums in stadiums, get millions of T.V. viewers, we will never be fortunate enough to see total cleanliness.

 

Not as long as there is pressure to make money.

 

Nike, Adidas, Oakley ......... and the list is endless are all under pressure to drive their media campaigns around winners.

 

Yeah, the 'win at whatever cost' push by the corporate machines.

 

Medical technology is improving all the time.

Should put a dent in the doping underworld.

[Wyatt Earp]

Super ironic for me is how highly people speak of Contador in the L.A. has been bust "and is a total knob" thread.

[Guest Omega Man]

Super ironic for me is how highly people speak of Contador in the L.A. has been bust "and is a total knob" thread.

That happens everywhere.

 

Rossi vs Stoner

Contador vs LA

Boks vs AB's

[Wyatt Earp]

That happens everywhere.

 

Rossi vs Stoner

Contador vs LA

Boks vs AB's

 

Shows how two faced and hypocritical we all are.

[Guest Omega Man]

Shows how two faced and hypocritical we all are.

No No. Just fans.

[Lucky Luke.]

I'm saddened because it's tarnished the reputation of cycling further.

 

Am I happy that someone who many thousands have looked to as an inspiration has been humiliated and had his reputation dragged through the mud? No.

 

Am I happy that 3 riders that I admire have been in the media about doping this year? No.

 

My strong feeling is that the best we can hope for is a major change at the highest level of the sport. The UCI has been complicit in much of the Armstrong story and continues to act in a 'kingmaker' role. We're still seeing it, they've just changed the team that they're backing.

 

The people with the power to affect cycling's reputation are abusing that power in a way that does a disservice to everybody, fans, sponsors and riders alike. Unless they are brought down and the problems turned inside out, I don't believe we can change the sport.

 

However if we just say well there's nothing to be done about this, I think that's a very wrong approach to take. The evidence in this case points to Armstrong being more than just another one of the doping riders. He, Bruyneel and the UCI steered the sport down that path.

 

This is our sport, we pay the bills at the end of the day and we have the power to demand that **** gets sorted out.

[Tumbleweed]

The evidence in this case points to Armstrong being more than just another one of the doping riders. He, Bruyneel and the UCI steered the sport down that path.

 

That's the crux right there. There are fans of the sport, and there are fans of the athletes. Hopefully, the former will come out of this satisfied.

[Lucky Luke.]

That's the crux right there. There are fans of the sport, and there are fans of the athletes. Hopefully, the former will come out of this satisfied.

 

Ja, ultimately for me, whilst I admired the story being told, I never invested anything personal in the cult of lance, I just like riding bikes and dislike abuse of power

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Shows how two faced and hypocritical we all are.

 

Not sure thats fair mate, and I will tell you why, many people fail to separate "LA the athlete" and "LA the person".

 

As an athlete I think LA was spectacular, certainly the best of his era, possibly ever, but as a person, No, not so much, actually I think he was a rather unlikable personality, a litigious bully who liked to remind everyone of his cancer history on a regular basis, and someone who found unmitigated joy in demeaning others.

 

I dont look up to athletes, never have, and I dont consider them stars, but I am a fan of some, there's a difference, but LA was never one of them.

 

You mentioned 'Berto somewhere else as a comparison, well, they both have a similar history, but thats all, and many would go "Wow I didnt know that" when told he has a steel plate in his head, Yup, that his brain was almost leaking out of his skull after a crash, that he was in a coma for weeks, that doctors thought he may never walk again,... if he lived of course!!... let alone ride a bike, or win every Grand tour there was / is,... some twice,...so yeah, they could be forgiven though, because unlike LA he never mentions it.!!

 

They might also go "Gee Whizz", when told he is also a patron of a major charity, and has changed many a life in his own small way, sadly, he doesn't have Major American Corporate money behind him like LA has, but he is Spanish, and American corporate money wont flow there, sadly neither do the big bill boards and the TV coverage, or the $4000.00 a head Corporate dinners and fund raisers from those in Corporate and political power, No, its a lot more toned down in Europe, and especially Spain, who is almost bankrupt, so, he do's what he can, but yeah,.......... he never mentions that much either.!

 

Then of course everyone is quick to cough up the "Steak" issue,... Okay, so he was caught with a minuscule amount of Clen, he took his punishment and he is back,.....No disgrace,... in comparison to LA, who, it could easily be argued, possibly lead one of the worlds greatest sporting frauds ever,.........No, I hardly think its comparable!.

 

Am I a 'Berto fan?.....damn right, I think he is a humble man who says little about himself and his achievements or successes, I also think he is possibly the greatest tour rider (athlete) of the decade, better, and far more versatile than LA ever was, and I wish him well, I hope he go's from strength to strength.

 

As for the "present 2012 LA"?, probably he has mellowed a bit lately, age do's that and your views on life and its impact on you change as you get older, and I think its changed him for the better.

 

My opinion that he was a superb athlete and probably would have won anyway, even without the cloud of dope, hasn't really changed, I still believe he has been hiding a demon in his backyard for years, and he knew, if it got out, it would destroy him, but I also dont really care much either, I was never interested that much in the doping culture anyway,.... so, my wish for LA now is that he is able to change, move forward, and start living up to his mantle of "LA the greatest cyclist", by working on been "LA the nicest man",..... I think he can do it!.

[TNT1]

Not sure thats fair mate, and I will tell you why, many people fail to separate "LA the athlete" and "LA the person".

 

As an athlete I think LA was spectacular, certainly the best of his era, possibly ever, but as a person, No, not so much, actually I think he was a rather unlikable personality, a litigious bully who liked to remind everyone of his cancer history on a regular basis, and someone who found unmitigated joy in demeaning others.

 

I dont look up to athletes, never have, and I dont consider them stars, but I am a fan of some, there's a difference, but LA was never one of them.

 

You mentioned 'Berto somewhere else as a comparison, well, they both have a similar history, but thats all, and many would go "Wow I didnt know that" when told he has a steel plate in his head, Yup, that his brain was almost leaking out of his skull after a crash, that he was in a coma for weeks, that doctors thought he may never walk again,... if he lived of course!!... let alone ride a bike, or win every Grand tour there was / is,... some twice,...so yeah, they could be forgiven though, because unlike LA he never mentions it.!!

 

They might also go "Gee Whizz", when told he is also a patron of a major charity, and has changed many a life in his own small way, sadly, he doesn't have Major American Corporate money behind him like LA has, but he is Spanish, and American corporate money wont flow there, sadly neither do the big bill boards and the TV coverage, or the $4000.00 a head Corporate dinners and fund raisers from those in Corporate and political power, No, its a lot more toned down in Europe, and especially Spain, who is almost bankrupt, so, he do's what he can, but yeah,.......... he never mentions that much either.!

 

Then of course everyone is quick to cough up the "Steak" issue,... Okay, so he was caught with a minuscule amount of Clen, he took his punishment and he is back,.....No disgrace,... in comparison to LA, who, it could easily be argued, possibly lead one of the worlds greatest sporting frauds ever,.........No, I hardly think its comparable!.

 

Am I a 'Berto fan?.....damn right, I think he is a humble man who says little about himself and his achievements or successes, I also think he is possibly the greatest tour rider (athlete) of the decade, better, and far more versatile than LA ever was, and I wish him well, I hope he go's from strength to strength.

 

As for the "present 2012 LA"?, probably he has mellowed a bit lately, age do's that and your views on life and its impact on you change as you get older, and I think its changed him for the better.

 

My opinion that he was a superb athlete and probably would have won anyway, even without the cloud of dope, hasn't really changed, I still believe he has been hiding a demon in his backyard for years, and he knew, if it got out, it would destroy him, but I also dont really care much either, I was never interested that much in the doping culture anyway,.... so, my wish for LA now is that he is able to change, move forward, and start living up to his mantle of "LA the greatest cyclist", by working on been "LA the nicest man",..... I think he can do it!.

 

Nice

[Squier]

I'm still a Lance fan. I don't care much for his personality, the way he treated others in the peleton, the way he has denied doping, etc. I'm a Lance fan because he was spectacular on the bike. That is the same reason why I am a Contador fan. On the bike, they are/were spectacular.

 

No need to be overly self-righteous, if it makes for good TV, sign me up!

[Eldron]

Contador rave

 

Grumps - funny how we see the riders we favour in the light we want to see them. You could say that Conty went the same route with his drug fiasco and played the deny deny deny game. You could say that the plasticides found in his system were from doping tainted blood back. But you didn't.

 

Not trying to start a fight - just pointing out that the light shines differently on people when you form some kind of emotional bond with them. Actually not even with them because few of us actually meet the riders we admire.

 

Me - I say Jan was the coolest rider ever. Sure he doped like Berto and Lancey but at least he threw in some recreational stuff and crashed Porsches through rows of bicycles like a real rock star. Fighting the winter bulge also threw in a nice human element.

 

I like Jan but not Lance or Berto - and yet all 3 are tainted.

[eddy]

I'm a Lance fan because he was spectacular on the bike. That is the same reason why I am a Contador fan. On the bike, they are/were spectacular.

 

 

This is like my 85 year old uncle's sex life. Regular and spectacular erections, the finest they have seen in the old age home.

 

However, nobody knows how he would perform without the Viagra.

 

Given what we know about LA and 'Berto, it is not possible to distinguish between the person and the medication.

Edited August 29, 2012 by eddy

[rudi-h]

Not sure thats fair mate, and I will tell you why, many people fail to separate "LA the athlete" and "LA the person".

 

As an athlete I think LA was spectacular, certainly the best of his era, possibly ever, but as a person, No, not so much, actually I think he was a rather unlikable personality, a litigious bully who liked to remind everyone of his cancer history on a regular basis, and someone who found unmitigated joy in demeaning others.

 

I dont look up to athletes, never have, and I dont consider them stars, but I am a fan of some, there's a difference, but LA was never one of them.

 

You mentioned 'Berto somewhere else as a comparison, well, they both have a similar history, but thats all, and many would go "Wow I didnt know that" when told he has a steel plate in his head, Yup, that his brain was almost leaking out of his skull after a crash, that he was in a coma for weeks, that doctors thought he may never walk again,... if he lived of course!!... let alone ride a bike, or win every Grand tour there was / is,... some twice,...so yeah, they could be forgiven though, because unlike LA he never mentions it.!!

 

They might also go "Gee Whizz", when told he is also a patron of a major charity, and has changed many a life in his own small way, sadly, he doesn't have Major American Corporate money behind him like LA has, but he is Spanish, and American corporate money wont flow there, sadly neither do the big bill boards and the TV coverage, or the $4000.00 a head Corporate dinners and fund raisers from those in Corporate and political power, No, its a lot more toned down in Europe, and especially Spain, who is almost bankrupt, so, he do's what he can, but yeah,.......... he never mentions that much either.!

 

Then of course everyone is quick to cough up the "Steak" issue,... Okay, so he was caught with a minuscule amount of Clen, he took his punishment and he is back,.....No disgrace,... in comparison to LA, who, it could easily be argued, possibly lead one of the worlds greatest sporting frauds ever,.........No, I hardly think its comparable!.

 

Am I a 'Berto fan?.....damn right, I think he is a humble man who says little about himself and his achievements or successes, I also think he is possibly the greatest tour rider (athlete) of the decade, better, and far more versatile than LA ever was, and I wish him well, I hope he go's from strength to strength.

 

As for the "present 2012 LA"?, probably he has mellowed a bit lately, age do's that and your views on life and its impact on you change as you get older, and I think its changed him for the better.

 

My opinion that he was a superb athlete and probably would have won anyway, even without the cloud of dope, hasn't really changed, I still believe he has been hiding a demon in his backyard for years, and he knew, if it got out, it would destroy him, but I also dont really care much either, I was never interested that much in the doping culture anyway,.... so, my wish for LA now is that he is able to change, move forward, and start living up to his mantle of "LA the greatest cyclist", by working on been "LA the nicest man",..... I think he can do it!.

 

Why is it so much different?

 

Whether you like it or not, Lance used his story to gain public interest, and with the public interest he could obtain sponsors, meet politicians which he could lure to $4000 gala dinners. It didn't work the other way round. He chose to use his story along with his success to become a worldwide celebrity. He could have kept it to himself and just ridden his bike, then his cancer foundation would have raised 10% of the revenue and nobody would have looked back 15 years to strip him of his titles?

 

Does this make him a douchebag? No it doesn't. He knows how sensationalism works and used that in a clever way along with some other PR excercises to become the most famous cyclists, cancer activist, maybe one day Ironman (if they let him compete) in history.

[Tumbleweed]

Why is it so much different? Whether you like it or not, Lance used his story to gain public interest, and with the public interest he could obtain sponsors, meet politicians which he could lure to $4000 gala dinners. It didn't work the other way round. He chose to use his story along with his success to become a worldwide celebrity. He could have kept it to himself and just ridden his bike, then his cancer foundation would have raised 10% of the revenue and nobody would have looked back 15 years to strip him of his titles? Does this make him a douchebag? No it doesn't. He knows how sensationalism works and used that in a clever way along with some other PR excercises to become the most famous cyclists, cancer activist, maybe one day Ironman (if they let him compete) in history.

Would the cancer foundation - which he set up before winning his first TdF - have been as successful if he hadn't (assuming he's guilty) cheated to win seven titles? Edited August 29, 2012 by Tumbleweed

[Eldron]

Would the cancer foundation - which he set up before winning his first TdF - have been as successful if he hadn't (assuming he's guilty) cheated to win seven titles?

 

Thats a moot point really - the fact that he set one up should gain him some brownie points.

 

BUT WAIT! He makes money off it so cancel brownie points.

 

BUT WAIT! He helps millions of people so points back.

 

BUT WAIT! Lance is a fraud so no points.

 

Ah whatever - if you like him he gets points - if not no points. Logic and fact (the few that there are) doesn't factor in this entire thread...