HappyMartin Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Now, this is where I'd throw my toys... if I was DG. He was caught red handed, at the time of testing, they can not proof when before he took the stuff so all races before, hands off, how long does the stuff stay in your system, improve your performance, if they can't proof that either, the next race, say a week later, is hands off, if they want to take it back, show he was benefiting from the previous positive test, or show he had the stuff in his blood during that race, no proof no game. seriously, I know these are rules, and ye we need rules, but surely there is some logic to law,s and proof of transgression at time of race needed, otherwise you going to end with mr x took something in january, so his races in december, he is not the winner, because he was naughty way back. G The sanction if one is imposed begins from the time the positive test sample was obtained from the athlete. If the athlete won anything after that time he therefore was technically banned at that time if it falls within the sanction period. So if you test positive in March and raced in June but received a 2 year ban in August for the March test then officially you didn't even take part on the June race that you claim to have won. If you know what I mean
HappyMartin Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Daryl was hardly part of the inner circle. Trained on his own and was given virtually no racing after he crashed early in the season. We complain when the pros keep a code of silence then complain when they have a go at dopers. What exactly do we want them to do? slowpoke, Tumbleweed and dracs 3
awesme Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Makes for a difficult situation... So he say he donated blood sample 31 Aug... now scenario 1, they test it the next day, suspend him for 2 months while the politics evolve.... Scenario 2 they put the blood in the fridge, he decides it not worth it, does not do it again, they test it 4 weeks later... now suspend him for 2 months back dating it to the blood sample date.He happen to race a race the last weekend of the 4 weeks. He was clean. he's disqualified.Now again, I'm not condoning anything here, just asking/thinking he made a stupid mistake to take the stuff, but so far, no one can proof that he was using it during a race. no race related positive tests. Remember people, this is not just bad boy, this is a guys career, his income, and when income comes to play, it gets legal, with laws, not rules. G The sanction if one is imposed begins from the time the positive test sample was obtained from the athlete. If the athlete won anything after that time he therefore was technically banned at that time if it falls within the sanction period. So if you test positive in March and raced in June but received a 2 year ban in August for the March test then officially you didn't even take part on the June race that you claim to have won. If you know what I mean
Mackie Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Sitting at my hotel looking over Maputo bay with an ice cold 2M draft, and just realised, I'm over DG's doping saga, had a jol calling him a pappa oscar echo sierra, and making all sorts of comments on social media, I'm done, until the next twat, dumb enough to get caught.... Edited November 7, 2012 by Mackie Pants Boy 1
Paul Ruinaard Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 They dont have any concrete proof of Armstrong doping - he never failed a test. So no you dont need any concrete proof of a test failure, you can be found guilty by 20 of your team mates saying they saw you do it. By Associaion in this case it menas that either KE doesnt need dope and is a truly great rider and is clean, or possibly, as he managed to stay with a dirty rider and call him a team mate and all the rest, that he must have had some help of his own. The silence around this subject creates the smell. Come out and make a statement either way. The failure to do so is what completely amazes me. All of Armstrongs luitenants got caught, some remembering after some prodding. A whole lot of people have overcome their amnesia lately in pro cycling. And DG had at least another incident where he was suspended, and all the pros supected it. So if there is that much evidence then he should lose all titles and have the balls to hand back those that he won when doped, like Bjarne Riis.
dracs Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Daryl was hardly part of the inner circle. Trained on his own and was given virtually no racing after he crashed early in the season. We complain when the pros keep a code of silence then complain when they have a go at dopers. What exactly do we want them to do?100% Some confused people commenting on here. Edited November 7, 2012 by dracs
Paul Ruinaard Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Makes for a difficult situation... So he say he donated blood sample 31 Aug... now scenario 1, they test it the next day, suspend him for 2 months while the politics evolve.... Scenario 2 they put the blood in the fridge, he decides it not worth it, does not do it again, they test it 4 weeks later... now suspend him for 2 months back dating it to the blood sample date.He happen to race a race the last weekend of the 4 weeks. He was clean. he's disqualified.Now again, I'm not condoning anything here, just asking/thinking he made a stupid mistake to take the stuff, but so far, no one can proof that he was using it during a race. no race related positive tests. Remember people, this is not just bad boy, this is a guys career, his income, and when income comes to play, it gets legal, with laws, not rules. GWhat are you saying - that he was taking EPO as a recreational drug, and it gave him some good acid flashbacks? What possible reason would there be for taking performance enhancing drugs out of season? Was he having problems getting it up and decided to use everything in the medicine cabinet to get going ?
dracs Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Makes for a difficult situation... So he say he donated blood sample 31 Aug... now scenario 1, they test it the next day, suspend him for 2 months while the politics evolve.... Scenario 2 they put the blood in the fridge, he decides it not worth it, does not do it again, they test it 4 weeks later... now suspend him for 2 months back dating it to the blood sample date.He happen to race a race the last weekend of the 4 weeks. He was clean. he's disqualified.Now again, I'm not condoning anything here, just asking/thinking he made a stupid mistake to take the stuff, but so far, no one can proof that he was using it during a race. no race related positive tests. Remember people, this is not just bad boy, this is a guys career, his income, and when income comes to play, it gets legal, with laws, not rules. GIts really not that complicated. he cheated and knew the consequences of being caught. he will be lucky to get away with only events from the date of his test being recinded as by all accounts his biological passport indicated systematic blood boosting for a period of time before that - hence targeted testing. slowpoke 1
Mackie Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Most people are actually an apathetic bunch, happy to blast dopers whom get caught, but also not prepared to do much to stop it. What effect does a doper actually have on your life? I for one ride my bike for selfish reasons, when I'm on the bike it's about me and the trail, and having a jol with my mates, I will never compete at the top level so it is ultimately inconsequential. I feel more sorry for the team mates that need the sponsors, but they need to be prepared to rat on their doping partners, and how much of that have we seen? Easy to enjoy when the goings are good and turning a blind eye, and just as easy to mount the highest of horses when they get binned.
awesme Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Hi there I'm not that specifically referring to DG here, More the process, the actual lack of proof, that he was guilty at the time of racing. G What are you saying - that he was taking EPO as a recreational drug, and it gave him some good acid flashbacks? What possible reason would there be for taking performance enhancing drugs out of season? Was he having problems getting it up and decided to use everything in the medicine cabinet to get going ?
rudi-h Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I think what Nedbank did by pulling their sponsorship is the only way to clean up the sport. It may be frowned upon in terms of individual rights from the clean riders' side, but the doper culture will disappear when doping will cause the fall of your team and potentially screw your team mates out of their careers.
Mellow Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I do not even know why people consider pro cycling as a job. How do you choose a sport/business where there is no level playing field. It is just ridiculous.
awesme Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I really hope they/Nedbank rather come back, and kicks him out of the team. They can and have done so much good for the sport future, don't hold the entire sport community accountable for his stupidity. G I think what Nedbank did by pulling their sponsorship is the only way to clean up the sport. It may be frowned upon in terms of individual rights from the clean riders' side, but the doper culture will disappear when doping will cause the fall of your team and potentially screw your team mates out of their careers.
kosmonooit Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Most people are actually an apathetic bunch, happy to blast dopers whom get caught, but also not prepared to do much to stop it. We are also living in morally bankrupt times. With so much crime, grime and corruption going on around us every day, our senses of justice and public right and wrong are numbed. As PhatBoy Slim says, WTF. Mackie 1
Tumbleweed Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Daryl was hardly part of the inner circle. Trained on his own and was given virtually no racing after he crashed early in the season. We complain when the pros keep a code of silence then complain when they have a go at dopers. What exactly do we want them to do? Well said. Well posed.
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