Walkers on Single Track in Tokai

[awesme]

 

G

 

From other threads I dont think that this is the consensus nor is it the norm, and thats how wars (or trips to casualty) start. Also not having signs at the bottom of trails saying that they are one-way and not to go up.

 

You know that from 1st Jan 2014 SA is falling in with our chinese masters and cars are going to be driven on the right-hand side of the road? If that works out, then on 1st February 2014 buses and lorries are going to do the same.

[cajohnston]

From other threads I dont think that this is the consensus nor is it the norm, and thats how wars (or trips to casualty) start. Also not having signs at the bottom of trails saying that they are one-way and not to go up.

 

You know that from 1st Jan 2014 SA is falling in with our chinese masters and cars are going to be driven on the right-hand side of the road? If that works out, then on 1st February 2014 buses and lorries are going to do the same.

 

I haven't seen those, but I think better signage is the best and only way to avoid confusion.

 

In my mind, someone going down a single track at 30km/h should get preference over someone going up at 10km/h. It seems a lot easier to stop and move over if you going slower, and if there are runners, then the same principle should apply as you can hear and see someone coming down so just move to the side...plus you get the bonus of not losing speed when you come down

[(Deon)]

If it is a general statement and there is enough space then I guess it does make sense to go around.

 

Just a word of advice...if you ever ride Tokai right of way is given to peeps going down as it is a lot easier to stop and move over with going a lot slower. If you do a search you will also find quite a bit of venting towards MTB'ers going up single track and not moving over

 

Due to vegetation height, many trails will be marked for one-way down only. The Tokai map Kandui is working on right now will not show all the directional trails but some text I have added on the back of the map says, "Respect signposted directional trails - one way trails have been introduced for rider safety and more could be added following periodic review. Signs in the ground take precedence."

 

The current unwritten right-of-way is for descending riders, exactly as you say cajohnston but because there are so many new riders to Tokai and in other areas, the general understanding is shared with those who just don't know. Signage will help answer these questions and give your 'tjoon' the teeth it needs.

 

2013 will usher in a... (I hate to say it) set of rules.

[Hairy]

Due to vegetation height, many trails will be marked for one-way down only. The Tokai map Kandui is working on right now will not show all the directional trails but some text I have added on the back of the map says, "Respect signposted directional trails - one way trails have been introduced for rider safety and more could be added following periodic review. Signs in the ground take precedence."

 

The current unwritten right-of-way is for descending riders, exactly as you say cajohnston but because there are so many new riders to Tokai and in other areas, the general understanding is shared with those who just don't know. Signage will help answer these questions and give your 'tjoon' the teeth it needs.

 

2013 will usher in a... (I hate to say it) set of rules.

 

As long as rules are simple and meaning full and not just rules for the sake of being rules then they will benefit all riding on the trails.

 

I think you get what I am trying to say .........

[(Deon)]

ha ha, sort of...

 

The reason why they are taking so long is to make them meaningful and comprehensive.. Rules in the past were made out of what was thought to be applicable and developed overnight.. Omega Man wants to kick my @ss because the signs and rules are taking so long but there is so much change happening, they need to apply to the trails of the future. This thread is a good example!

[Shebeen]

I haven't seen those, but I think better signage is the best and only way to avoid confusion.

 

In my mind, someone going down a single track at 30km/h should get preference over someone going up at 10km/h. It seems a lot easier to stop and move over if you going slower, and if there are runners, then the same principle should apply as you can hear and see someone coming down so just move to the side...plus you get the bonus of not losing speed when you come down

There are pros and cons to both views, and in general the issue is unresolved - it's been discussed at length here. The IMBA norm is for uphill priority, but there are good reasons for many exceptions (ie. the big berm at Tokai being just one). My own personal mantra is just not to ride uphill singletrack during busy times(ie. weekends).

 

The bit where your theory runs dry - it's not really about who stops easier, but who can restart easier. The uphill direction guy stops dead, foot down, hopefully switched to easier gear before stopping. now has to balance a stopped bike, try clip in or push on unclipped pedals and half trackstand before moving again. The downhill guy just freewheels back to speed.

[nishiki]

My response was a generalised one as I thought the thread was a broad one, not limited to Tokai.

What part of the thread title gave you that idea?? "

Walkers on Single Track in Tokai"

[Hairy]

There are pros and cons to both views, and in general the issue is unresolved - it's been discussed at length here. The IMBA norm is for uphill priority, but there are good reasons for many exceptions (ie. the big berm at Tokai being just one). My own personal mantra is just not to ride uphill singletrack during busy times(ie. weekends).

 

The bit where your theory runs dry - it's not really about who stops easier, but who can restart easier. The uphill direction guy stops dead, foot down, hopefully switched to easier gear before stopping. now has to balance a stopped bike, try clip in or push on unclipped pedals and half trackstand before moving again. The downhill guy just freewheels back to speed.

 

Cool ... rider can work on track stand and tech climbing skills more then

[jimmy hardtail]

Don't ride up the downhill track. End.

[nishiki]

There are pros and cons to both views, and in general the issue is unresolved - it's been discussed at length here. The IMBA norm is for uphill priority, but there are good reasons for many exceptions (ie. the big berm at Tokai being just one). My own personal mantra is just not to ride uphill singletrack during busy times(ie. weekends).

 

The bit where your theory runs dry - it's not really about who stops easier, but who can restart easier. The uphill direction guy stops dead, foot down, hopefully switched to easier gear before stopping. now has to balance a stopped bike, try clip in or push on unclipped pedals and half trackstand before moving again. The downhill guy just freewheels back to speed.

ja ja ja, this has been debated to death! At Tokai you yield for the downhill rider. because we all live to ride flowing, fast downhills here and you'll appreciate that when you've worked hard to get to the top.

[droo]

From other threads I dont think that this is the consensus nor is it the norm, and thats how wars (or trips to casualty) start. Also not having signs at the bottom of trails saying that they are one-way and not to go up.

 

You know that from 1st Jan 2014 SA is falling in with our chinese masters and cars are going to be driven on the right-hand side of the road? If that works out, then on 1st February 2014 buses and lorries are going to do the same.

 

I've seen one-way signage at the bottom of trails in Tokai ripped off the signposts, presumably by the same fools who destroy lips by riding backwards over them. As with muppet drivers, I hope they are the ones that meet a downhiller (hopefully in full kit) and not some noob who just doesn't know any better cos the signs didn't last a week.

 

(Nothing against downhillers, it's just that with full face lids and body armour they should come off a bit better than your average trail rider)

 

Joe - Correct, IMBA rules give right of way to riders climbing if the trail isn't marked as one-direction, so folk would do well to bear that in mind when the handbags-at-ten-paces starts. I personally just won't climb singletrack when the trails are busy - far more fun to be had on the way down, especially when there's nobody in the way.

 

Last point - I'm of the opinion that one of the levels in Dante's inferno is reserved for anyone who stops for a chat in the middle of the singletrack. Please move off the trail, for your own safety and that of everyone else.

[cajohnston]

There are pros and cons to both views, and in general the issue is unresolved - it's been discussed at length here. The IMBA norm is for uphill priority, but there are good reasons for many exceptions (ie. the big berm at Tokai being just one). My own personal mantra is just not to ride uphill singletrack during busy times(ie. weekends).

 

The bit where your theory runs dry - it's not really about who stops easier, but who can restart easier. The uphill direction guy stops dead, foot down, hopefully switched to easier gear before stopping. now has to balance a stopped bike, try clip in or push on unclipped pedals and half trackstand before moving again. The downhill guy just freewheels back to speed.

 

It's not that my theory runs dry, it's just that I prefer to not have a stop-start ride down when I had to work so hard to get to the top. No reward for all your hard work and enjoy free-flowing downhill kinda defeats the purpose. Same principle applies to runners.

[DJR]

There are pros and cons to both views, and in general the issue is unresolved - it's been discussed at length here. The IMBA norm is for uphill priority, but there are good reasons for many exceptions (ie. the big berm at Tokai being just one). My own personal mantra is just not to ride uphill singletrack during busy times(ie. weekends).

 

The bit where your theory runs dry - it's not really about who stops easier, but who can restart easier. The uphill direction guy stops dead, foot down, hopefully switched to easier gear before stopping. now has to balance a stopped bike, try clip in or push on unclipped pedals and half trackstand before moving again. The downhill guy just freewheels back to speed.

 

My 2c worth about this argument: It should first and foremost be about who can STOP the easiest! The reason being that STOPPING is the SAFETY ISSUE! Stopping safely is more difficult and crashing more likely, with bigger consequinces, for the descender.Thereafter comes the restart, which is NOT a safety issue. Therefore, riders going down should have right of way. (Yes you smart Hubbers, my opinion used to be the opposite, but I've changed it, so ignore anything I said in old posts on this issue.)

[Tubehunter]

I don't get this whole debate. Yes, I realise that there are more events that have techincal climbs which is probably the only reason why more people are taking to riding up single track. Single track came into existence as a route to get down a technical stretch of a mountain. What has changed?? Surely the overwhelming majority of us ride mountain bikes to experience the thrill of having as good a down run as our skill allows?? And, yes, fair enough some of us will continue to challenge ourselves to climb up some trials, but don't try to claim the right of way when you are going in the opposite direction of the intended use.

[Guest Omega Man]

I don't get this whole debate. Yes, I realise that there are more events that have techincal climbs which is probably the only reason why more people are taking to riding up single track. Single track came into existence as a route to get down a technical stretch of a mountain. What has changed?? Surely the overwhelming majority of us ride mountain bikes to experience the thrill of having as good a down run as our skill allows?? And, yes, fair enough some of us will continue to challenge ourselves to climb up some trials, but don't try to claim the right of way when you are going in the opposite direction of the intended use.

That's your point of view bru. And while I share it myself the vast majority of mountain bikers in SA (if 29er sales are anything to go by) aren't interested in pinning single track in a downward direction.

 

Also. It's should not be a debate. IMBA rules say that rider going up have right of way unless the trail specifically state the opposite.

[Hairy]

That's your point of view bru. And while I share it myself the vast majority of mountain bikers in SA (if 29er sales are anything to go by) aren't interested in pinning single track in a downward direction.

 

Also. It's should not be a debate. IMBA rules say that rider going up have right of way unless the trail specifically state the opposite.

 

Simple then .... let the trail signage dictate

I do also agree that down has right of way ... anyway the Americans set up the IMBA rules and they drive on the wrong side of the road, thus we can not take everything they say as gospel