Northcliff Cycles in the Cradle this morning - what a bunch of Tjops

[andydude]

So I was thinking of doing my very first cradle ride this coming weekend after relocating to Jhb (well almost - 400km away), but is the Northcliff ride out of bounds now? I'll actually be staying in Northcliff for a few months.

[Agteros]

What is there - a code of Omerta amongst cyclists, and becaue you wear Lycra you are my brother and we must stand together? Sorry mate I dont think so. Secondly I personally think that the best place to do dirty laundry is in social media and on internet forums. I couldnt have reached half as many people with my opinion.Some of whm actually know the people and saw similar incidents. So it will filter down believe me.

 

Finally let me point out that the forum is called rant n rave, so likely you will gte posts that are rants n raves. It wasnt under "cycling Safety" or unreporrted SAPS cases. I used rant n rave language. Its called flaming if youw ant to knwo. I wasnt trying to be objective and co-operative about it. I was pissed off.

 

Finally whilst I admire you sense of social justice I tend to stray towards summary justice in my life. So I have, for about 3 microseconds, weighed up reporting it to teh SAPS versus flaiming the guys on a forum of cyclists. I think b.) won.

 

What blows my mind how many self righteous responses there have been along the lines of:

 

"the hub is our only playground so we are allowed to do what we want there"

"you were delusional"

"alex is really a nice guy so it is okay"

 

Like there is a special class of citizenry called cyclists who have special needs and rights for them to do what they wnat. Man this is exactly what the problem is. There are still people who believe this. To this day. After all the dead cyclists on SA roads.

 

All of these miss the fact that the type of behavious gets people killed. It is Argus training time. People - mainly roadies, will die. Normally between about 6 to 10 every year. Some nearly died in the cradle as recently as last week, albeit for different reasons.

 

So whilst you can crow about reporting to the SAPS and doing dirty washing in the hub, I would be surprised if the NC bunch is as keen to spread themselves across the lanes next group ride, and someone will be more careful. If that is the case - mission accomplished.

 

And FWIW, I suggest you go to the charge office at the Muldersdrift police station the next time you see a transgresison and keep the hub updated on the progress of your case against said transgressors. And the next time some noob who doesnt know the rules cuts me off on the spruit - should I go to the Linden Police and lay a charge? I suggets a quiet word or even a loud swear word will teach whowever it is that I disapprove and leave him thinking about what was the best behaviour under the circumstances.

Some points:

• No omerta(denying issues),but there are different ways of dealing with it. Not everything has to be dealt with in the way a 5 year old will do it!
  
• Talking to the people who 'wronged' / SAPS is the correct way. No getting around that.
  
• Washing dirty laundry in public leads to much laughter and finger pointing from outside, and greatly detracts from the issue you are trying to address.
  
• True, the title is 'Rant & Rave", however it is just an arbitrary name for items cycling related (which this is), it does not imply, not implore you to behave like an petulant child / unmannered (barbaric), uneducated, illiterate person...
  
• The rest of the road users see cyclists as a homogeneous group, so better we start acting as such(one for all and all for one stuff), or alternatively actively change the perceptions out there w.r.t to cyclists being a group. Although, even if we convince the world that cyclists hate each other and want nothing to do with each other, we will stay a distinct class of road user. This will unfortunately lead to the further dilution of "our" rights to/on the road
  
• Because somebody has a 'different'/Euro-centric/contracdictory view of road use, does that automatically disqualify that person from being 'nice'?
  
• Considered the fact that he veered offline because he was looking back at the danger being called from behind / he was riding "defensively" to protect the group (put his own body on the line to protect his protegees)?
  
• How many Argus participants were killed by the actions you described? (Thank goodness you were not involved in an accident when you strayed to the other side of the solid white line - Irrespective of whether you are an Argus participant or not!)
  
• Cyclists are a special class (of road users), but there are many of them: Motor vehicle users, pedestrians, horse & carriage users, etc. Each of them have special needs & requirements - no getting around that. The trick is to balance all these different requirements so each group can still functionally use the road (together)!
  
• Don't be surprised if your 'rant & rave' does NOT have the effect your are dreaming of! Talking to them might be more conducive to a positive response.
  
• I have lodged cases at Honeydew Police station before (2: assault AND vehicle accident), and found them effective and correct in doing their job. Yeah, sure patience is required, but patience will stand you in good stead everywhere - Like staying behind an errant group of cyclists whilst waiting for a safe place to overtake!)
  
• 'spruit use is governed not by laws, but by etiquette. And dare I say that MTBers continuously annoy other users of said public space? things like 'buzzing' dogs, forcing pedestrians (elderly too!) off the footpath (oh sorry.. singletrack!)
  

Pity you are not willing to take it up with NC. It would have afforded you the opportunity to get to know more people in the cycling (non)community, or their motives for certain actions... Sadly, this is another opportunity lost for cyclists to help other cyclists to constructively clean their own (non)house.

[Agteros]

So I was thinking of doing my very first cradle ride this coming weekend after relocating to Jhb (well almost - 400km away), but is the Northcliff ride out of bounds now? I'll actually be staying in Northcliff for a few months.

Go speak to Alex and them. Who cares what the rant & ravers think! Their actions are not unique, every group err to the wrong side of the line (even those with an IQ of ..)

Alternatively you can trek out to Rosebank on weekday mornings(Tue-Fri) for an ICG ride starting at 5am. - but then they've been tarred and feathered as well. Just like the Engen2Engen group, just like the big clubs (also riding in the Cradle). And do not even talk about the rides in Alberton over weekends!

 

Suggestion: Do not get pulled down/sucked in by all the negativity on here!

[awesme]

Simple solution, look listen, pay attention, and don't forget to ignore what needs to be.

 

and then go out and ride,ride ride ride.

 

G

[Paul Ruinaard]

Some points:

• No omerta(denying issues),but there are different ways of dealing with it. Not everything has to be dealt with in the way a 5 year old will do it!
  
• Talking to the people who 'wronged' / SAPS is the correct way. No getting around that.
  
• Washing dirty laundry in public leads to much laughter and finger pointing from outside, and greatly detracts from the issue you are trying to address.
  
• True, the title is 'Rant & Rave", however it is just an arbitrary name for items cycling related (which this is), it does not imply, not implore you to behave like an petulant child / unmannered (barbaric), uneducated, illiterate person...
  
• The rest of the road users see cyclists as a homogeneous group, so better we start acting as such(one for all and all for one stuff), or alternatively actively change the perceptions out there w.r.t to cyclists being a group. Although, even if we convince the world that cyclists hate each other and want nothing to do with each other, we will stay a distinct class of road user. This will unfortunately lead to the further dilution of "our" rights to/on the road
  
• Because somebody has a 'different'/Euro-centric/contracdictory view of road use, does that automatically disqualify that person from being 'nice'?
  
• Considered the fact that he veered offline because he was looking back at the danger being called from behind / he was riding "defensively" to protect the group (put his own body on the line to protect his protegees)?
  
• How many Argus participants were killed by the actions you described? (Thank goodness you were not involved in an accident when you strayed to the other side of the solid white line - Irrespective of whether you are an Argus participant or not!)
  
• Cyclists are a special class (of road users), but there are many of them: Motor vehicle users, pedestrians, horse & carriage users, etc. Each of them have special needs & requirements - no getting around that. The trick is to balance all these different requirements so each group can still functionally use the road (together)!
  
• Don't be surprised if your 'rant & rave' does NOT have the effect your are dreaming of! Talking to them might be more conducive to a positive response.
  
• I have lodged cases at Honeydew Police station before (2: assault AND vehicle accident), and found them effective and correct in doing their job. Yeah, sure patience is required, but patience will stand you in good stead everywhere - Like staying behind an errant group of cyclists whilst waiting for a safe place to overtake!)
  
• 'spruit use is governed not by laws, but by etiquette. And dare I say that MTBers continuously annoy other users of said public space? things like 'buzzing' dogs, forcing pedestrians (elderly too!) off the footpath (oh sorry.. singletrack!)
  

Pity you are not willing to take it up with NC. It would have afforded you the opportunity to get to know more people in the cycling (non)community, or their motives for certain actions... Sadly, this is another opportunity lost for cyclists to help other cyclists to constructively clean their own (non)house.

 

Some good points - however it appears that there are hub less inclined to encourage and enjoy debate in an open forum amongst us and are not enjoying our session of wit and repartee so it appears that we will have to take the ground of agree to diagree and agree that there is a chasm between our approaches.

 

[Agteros]

 

Some good points - however it appears that there are hub less inclined to encourage and enjoy debate in an open forum amongst us and are not enjoying our session of wit and repartee so it appears that we will have to take the ground of agree to diagree and agree that there is a chasm between our approaches.

 

Agree to disagree is the most likely outcome in most scenarios. Does not help to beat each other over the head until they 'agree'. This goes for road users and forum users

[Pariah]

And the tills at NC runneth over....

[Agteros]

And the tills at NC runneth over....

Hope they have enough tubes for people stop over to buy something small to 'check out' the establishment and owner / employees!

Traffic on Beyers Naude is flowing smoothly in both directions at the moment Just be careful of the speed traps in the dip close to the shop, as well as random locations between them and the highway!

[Pieter1]

 

Hope they have enough tubes for people stop over to buy something small to 'check out' the establishment and owner / employees!

Traffic on Beyers Naude is flowing smoothly in both directions at the moment Just be careful of the speed traps in the dip close to the shop, as well as random locations between them and the highway!

They usually sit infront of those bushes just before the Caltex and a next to a tree by the Zenex.

[olram_df]

 

Because if you use a cellphone to take a picture you are also breaking the law and should thus be treated like a kiddy fiddler

 

LOL funny thing is if you do it with an ordinary camera you should be fine

[JGR]

LOL funny thing is if you do it with an ordinary camera you should be fine

[Danger Dassie]

So I was thinking of doing my very first cradle ride this coming weekend after relocating to Jhb (well almost - 400km away), but is the Northcliff ride out of bounds now? I'll actually be staying in Northcliff for a few months.

 

Nah, take anything said here, or any internet forum with a pinch of salt and ride. No such thing as out of bounds, enjoy the Cradle.

[Trubie]

oh boy - what a read for a monday morning (except its Tuesday)

not going to comment on the issue at hand as its been debated forever

fact is - as cyclists we are always quick to judge when a cyclists gets hit or heaven forbid mamed or killed

but look at how we behave when someone points out bad behaviour

 

point I wanted to make before i got pulled into this discussion........... was, go do a search for the 2012 Hub stats posted a few days ago. If that doesn't tell you how serious this has become.

Fact is lotsa people laugh and ridicule it, but they cant wait to log in and read and have something to talk about with their mates on teh next ride.

Its similar to many on here denying to ever watch that cycling show on tuesday evenings on SS. Yet they always up to date with whatever was flighted

[Agteros]

oh boy - what a read for a monday morning (except its Tuesday)

not going to comment on the issue at hand as its been debated forever

fact is - as cyclists we are always quick to judge when a cyclists gets hit or heaven forbid mamed or killed

but look at how we behave when someone points out bad behaviour

 

point I wanted to make before i got pulled into this discussion........... was, go do a search for the 2012 Hub stats posted a few days ago. If that doesn't tell you how serious this has become.

Fact is lotsa people laugh and ridicule it, but they cant wait to log in and read and have something to talk about with their mates on teh next ride.

Its similar to many on here denying to ever watch that cycling show on tuesday evenings on SS. Yet they always up to date with whatever was flighted

All very true, and if people will rather get of their high horses, and just ride their bicycles. Imagine the motoring forums with posts about every perceived / observed wrong being debated to death on there. It does not happen! Does make you wonder about the mentality in the cycling (non)community to attack 'their own', rather to educate 'their own' in a constructive manner, and accept that not everybody's behaviour will be changed over night!

[Kranswurm]

I used to drive thru past the Rhino Park on my way to and from Lanseria and hated every moment.

 

The off camber bends,stupid bumps and funny narrowing sections drove me batty

Never ridden there since 1991

Might give it a bash next week

[Paul Ruinaard]

Totally OT but Cradle is actually very nice now IMHO. The whole cycle lane reservation has made traffic a lot slwoer so it is really a lot safer than it was a couple of years ago.I have done a lot of time in there since it was tarred and even before when it was dirt. So dont let my ranting and raving put anyone off - go there and see for yourself. It is a beautiful ride especially at this time of year.