Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted April 21, 2017 Share I think it's important to look into your bike's leverage curve before going coil. Coil is linear and suits bikes well that have leverage curves that are by design progressive, i.e. YTs. My Swoop has an almost linear leverage ratio. Slapping a coil on would mean hella lot of bottom outs.Indeed, but from reading suspension tuning and setup guides, linear curves are still good for coils. A linear arrangement still means it'll require a lot more force to bottom out than move 10mm, as the 500lb/in measurement is cumulative ie it needs 500lb to move an inch, 1,000lb to move 2 inches etc. And you can still dial in some compression damping to make it a bit stiffer & supportive. It's if the curve is on the regressive side that you have to start worrying, as there the curve relies on Air's inherent progression to support it in the end stroke, and if you had a coil on there the additional force required to move the travel that last inch would be offset by the regressive nature of the linkage... so the last inch may just require an additional 200lb vs the additional 500lb the previous inch required. Edited April 21, 2017 by Myles Mayhew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted April 21, 2017 Share so pure linear on a 500lb/in spring 1 inch = 500lb2inch = 1,000lb3 inch = 1,500lb Regressive may be 1 inch = 500lb2 inch = 950lb3 inch = 1,300lb Or higher / lower depending on curve Progressive may be 1 inch = 500lb2 inch = 1,050lb3 inch = 1,700lb or higher / lower depending on curve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltazarMarques Posted April 21, 2017 Share Well what is the weight penalty for going to coil? About 500g? It's quite a bit if so. But I suppose it's at a decent spot on the bike, but again, where do you draw the line? I see guys on here with beautiful carbon bikes, developed to give you the best DH capacity possible for sub 13kg. And then they go an slowly add and add and add in the name of "performance". Well, sure, but your bike now weighs 16kg, climbs like shite and is still nowhere near a DH bike. Why not just pour lead down your seat tube and be done with it?Only about 250g with Ti spring so not that bad a weight gain and as you say, it's in the right place to negate the weight gain slightly - Having ridden with both on my bike I didn't consciously notice the weight gain, but I 100% noticed the performance gain. And as far as beautiful carbon bikes getting more weight added I'm not so sure I agree with you if completely, but that's just talking about my personal experience. Yes the bikes are made of carbon and the first thing everyone thinks when carbon is mentioned is "oh, it's going to be light" - Actually the stiffness is probably one of the biggest advantages and then weight. The carbon DH and burlier AM bikes are slightly lighter than alu yes, but not as much as may be expected as they are also layered slightly thicker and beefier etc to take the abuse of DH and AM riding. Same with Carbon wheels, the Burly DH/AM Carbon rims are wider and thicker so don't weigh too much less than a similar alu. I have a lot of carbon on my bike and I was expecting it to be much lighter than it is at 14.5KG (Really wanted 13kg or less), but it still climbs well and feels/rides much lighter than what the scale says. I could run lighter tyres and spend a bomb on a much lighter groupo ala Eagle or XO1 to get it closer to/less than 13kg but as Myles said, I don't mind a bit of extra weight if it performs where I need it to and for me personally that's the downs... Edited April 21, 2017 by BaltazarMarques Bizkit031 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Gordo Posted April 21, 2017 Share hahahahahaha, weight weeenies!!!!! BaltazarMarques and Capricorn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted April 21, 2017 Share Ya this whole "carbon bikes are lighter" *** that is perpetuated in this industry.Carbon frames are not necessarily significantly lighter than alu or steel.It's totally dependent on what the manufacturer designed the properties of the part to be. Johnny Lawless, Eddy Gordo, BaltazarMarques and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Gordo Posted April 21, 2017 Share Ya this whole "carbon bikes are lighter" *** that is perpetuated in this industry.Carbon frames are not necessarily significantly lighter than alu or steel.It's totally dependent on what the manufacturer designed the properties of the part to be.True indeed, Some carbon wheels are heavier than some alu wheels of the same size. BaltazarMarques 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefmeister Posted April 21, 2017 Share Weight is irrelevant if you can afford to lose 5-10 kg of fat. BaltazarMarques, T-Bob, Eddy Gordo and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted April 21, 2017 Share Weight is irrelevant if you can afford to lose 5-10 kg of fat.this...the trufe!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefmeister Posted April 21, 2017 Share this...the trufe!!!But, it's all too easy to be conned into so-called performance upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted April 21, 2017 Share But, it's all too easy to be conned into so-called performance upgrades. I'm too scared of needles for he weigh loss performance upgrades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reden Posted April 21, 2017 Share Weight is irrelevant if you can afford to lose 5-10 kg of fat.only 10kg? You lie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizkit031 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Because the additions are functional, and we don't really care about weight? If my bike works how I want it to, and it weighs 16kg, surely that's better than if my bike is 13kg but there are compromises everywhere. Damn Straight weight pffft,weigh over a 100kg don't care about weight will rather have a decent shock and have a decent handling bike then worry about 250g or even 500g.Will rather loose a bit of weight on myself. Capricorn, BaltazarMarques and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoBoshoff Posted April 21, 2017 Share Because the additions are functional, and we don't really care about weight? If my bike works how I want it to, and it weighs 16kg, surely that's better than if my bike is 13kg but there are compromises everywhere. Really? Your Giant Reign Advanced, as ridden by the world's best, has compromises everywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted April 21, 2017 Share Guys, lets just be honest...it's not all about getting the best performing bike...We all like to bloody tinker and personalise our machines....Some things just feel better to one person. Does that mean they are better...not necessarily. But that doesn't matter When i first rode the Spitfire, it felt WAY better than my Pyga. Now I have a Banshee. Is it better than the Pyag? Yes!Is it heavier than the Pyga...? YES!Would I swap...? Fok0ff Letum911, Eddy Gordo, Ride Rate Review and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoBoshoff Posted April 21, 2017 Share Only about 250g with Ti spring so not that bad a weight gain and as you say, it's in the right place to negate the weight gain slightly - Having ridden with both on my bike I didn't consciously notice the weight gain, but I 100% noticed the performance gain. And as far as beautiful carbon bikes getting more weight added I'm not so sure I agree with you if completely, but that's just talking about my personal experience. Yes the bikes are made of carbon and the first thing everyone thinks when carbon is mentioned is "oh, it's going to be light" - Actually the stiffness is probably one of the biggest advantages and then weight. The carbon DH and burlier AM bikes are slightly lighter than alu yes, but not as much as may be expected as they are also layered slightly thicker and beefier etc to take the abuse of DH and AM riding. Same with Carbon wheels, the Burly DH/AM Carbon rims are wider and thicker so don't weigh too much less than a similar alu. I have a lot of carbon on my bike and I was expecting it to be much lighter than it is at 14.5KG (Really wanted 13kg or less), but it still climbs well and feels/rides much lighter than what the scale says. I could run lighter tyres and spend a bomb on a much lighter groupo ala Eagle or XO1 to get it closer to/less than 13kg but as Myles said, I don't mind a bit of extra weight if it performs where I need it to and for me personally that's the downs...Yes I know. I was actually referring more to people buying dream bikes with top-end spec and then saying "Nah, they did it better in 2008. Let me slap this ancient crap on it because it's so burly. And I'm a burly rider. BURLY BRU!". Massive difference from saying "Ok, I know this Pike is great, but I'm willing to offer up 100g for the Lyrik or 36 because I want something a bit bigger." or "Ok, I know this Fox X2 is great and probably good enough for me, but I'll offer up 250g for a coil which has massive advantages in my opinion." or "Ok, I'm willing to sacrifice 250g for stronger, better tyres because to finish first I need to first finish...". But some of the lunacy I've seen on this site is jumping the shark. Just buy a DH bike. BaltazarMarques and PhilipV 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Gordo Posted April 21, 2017 Share Yes I know. I was actually referring more to people buying dream bikes with top-end spec and then saying "Nah, they did it better in 2008. Let me slap this ancient crap on it because it's so burly. And I'm a burly rider. BURLY BRU!". Massive difference from saying "Ok, I know this Pike is great, but I'm willing to offer up 100g for the Lyrik or 36 because I want something a bit bigger." or "Ok, I know this Fox X2 is great and probably good enough for me, but I'll offer up 250g for a coil which has massive advantages in my opinion." or "Ok, I'm willing to sacrifice 250g for stronger, better tyres because to finish first I need to first finish...". But some of the lunacy I've seen on this site is jumping the shark. Just buy a DH bike.So hows the ohlins coil working out on your enduro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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