LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[NotSoBigBen]

Weigh in tomo oompie....I am having a big dump before. use it don't use it.

 

Extra hot Nando's tonight?

[DaleE]

This indicates that long-term high-fat, low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets lead to features that are also associated with the metabolic syndrome and an increased risk for type 2 diabetes in humans.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24398402

 

Ok, not wanting to start another "this study is great/good/ok/bad/lousy" argument here ... and also not denying that these researchers are probably lots smarter than me .... so this is really just food for thought ....

 

This study was done on mice. Now, from what I remember, mice are naturally grain/seed/nuts/corn eaters, they don't have much fat in their natural diet. So I would expect that if you take an animal and radically change it's natural diet, then there will be issues.

Is this not the same as taking a lion, only feeing it bread and potatoes for 6 months, then at the end of the study the conclusion is; "the lion died, so carbs are bad for humans"

Perhaps their assumption is that humans have the same natural metabolism to mice, so parallels can be drawn??

I could not get access to the whole study, so maybe am missing something here, but not sure how much we should infer from rodent studies ito nutrition.

Surely, human studies - which are far harder to control and are therefor harder to interpret - are the ones we should be looking at?

[jcza]

Ok, not wanting to start another "this study is great/good/ok/bad/lousy" argument here ... and also not denying that these researchers are probably lots smarter than me .... so this is really just food for thought ....

 

This study was done on mice. Now, from what I remember, mice are naturally grain/seed/nuts/corn eaters, they don't have much fat in their natural diet. So I would expect that if you take an animal and radically change it's natural diet, then there will be issues.

Is this not the same as taking a lion, only feeing it bread and potatoes for 6 months, then at the end of the study the conclusion is; "the lion died, so carbs are bad for humans"

Perhaps their assumption is that humans have the same natural metabolism to mice, so parallels can be drawn??

I could not get access to the whole study, so maybe am missing something here, but not sure how much we should infer from rodent studies ito nutrition.

Surely, human studies - which are far harder to control and are therefor harder to interpret - are the ones we should be looking at?

 

Some studies - http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/ for those interested. Personally I'm not one for research, I leave that to medical and other professionals. I go for my checkup, see the cardiologist to make sure the ticker is ok and away I go. I feel great, have loads of energy and race results better than ever (after the slump when I started LCHF).

[deanbean]

After a week and a bit into the LCHF thing, I went for a ride round the mountain with some friends. My legs were heavy, and I couldn't keep up with them, so my muscle glycogen must be low, or they've been doing lots of secret training over Xmas . I expected this, but not so early. My legs were OK at a moderate pace, but when I shouted GO, they muttered "Siyahamba Ngancane" (fig . we're on a go slow).

Weight is continuing on it's downward trend. I'm 1.72m tall and have a very slight build, "girly arms". I started at 82kg, which was the heaviest I've ever weighed, and would like to lose about 10kg, but I'll see how I feel and look, so may stop before.

[Topwine]

Ok, not wanting to start another "this study is great/good/ok/bad/lousy" argument here ... and also not denying that these researchers are probably lots smarter than me .... so this is really just food for thought ....

 

This study was done on mice. Now, from what I remember, mice are naturally grain/seed/nuts/corn eaters, they don't have much fat in their natural diet. So I would expect that if you take an animal and radically change it's natural diet, then there will be issues.

Is this not the same as taking a lion, only feeing it bread and potatoes for 6 months, then at the end of the study the conclusion is; "the lion died, so carbs are bad for humans"

Perhaps their assumption is that humans have the same natural metabolism to mice, so parallels can be drawn??

I could not get access to the whole study, so maybe am missing something here, but not sure how much we should infer from rodent studies ito nutrition.

Surely, human studies - which are far harder to control and are therefor harder to interpret - are the ones we should be looking at?

 

Good point. Fully agree. But there are 2 issues.

 

1. LCHF proponents like Lustig (sugar is poison) also use mice and rat studies (almost exclusively) to try and prove their point .

 

2. I have read, (and will try to find those references) that mice/rodent studies have proven to be highly correlated/similar to human metabolism and are therefore the prefered study objects.

[jcza]

After a week and a bit into the LCHF thing, I went for a ride round the mountain with some friends. My legs were heavy, and I couldn't keep up with them, so my muscle glycogen must be low, or they've been doing lots of secret training over Xmas . I expected this, but not so early. My legs were OK at a moderate pace, but when I shouted GO, they muttered "Siyahamba Ngancane" (fig . we're on a go slow).

Weight is continuing on it's downward trend. I'm 1.72m tall and have a very slight build, "girly arms". I started at 82kg, which was the heaviest I've ever weighed, and would like to lose about 10kg, but I'll see how I feel and look, so may stop before.

 

Months of long and slow riding ahead keeping the HR low

[davetapson]

Months of long and slow riding ahead keeping the HR low

 

What he said.

 

Trying to push it leads to misery and despair. But stick to it, it's worth it.

 

Took me probably 4 months to start coming right, but I'm not particularly carb intolerant. Noakes says that that the more intolerant you are, the quicker you come right.

[mazambaan]

and a punt for the LCHF diet (Noakes version) in Business Day. It seems that even the naughty Aussies have adopted it??

 

http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2014/01/20/thick-end-of-the-wedge-anc-to-get-a-mighty-fright

[deanbean]

I see that I'm in for many a miserable ride over the next few months, I expected nothing less.

Edited January 20, 2014 by deanbean

[jcza]

Will probably get slaughtered for posting pictures of poison here but this is what I raced on at attakwas. Had 2 x muffins and 500ml of water for breakfast. Had 2 x Powerbar gels, 1 x Vooma and 1 x Cyto. Gave the Energy Hp bar to one of the kids at side of road and still had 2 x gels left. Had 2 x bottles of Hammer Perpetuam, 2 x 32GI and 1 x Coke. Oh and a mini Barone at WP1.

[DaleE]

Jc,

I'm guessing those are all fairly fast release carbs. Have you ever tried UCAN or other slow release product?

[jcza]

Jc,

I'm guessing those are all fairly fast release carbs. Have you ever tried UCAN or other slow release product?

 

I tried UCAN a year ago at Barberton & Sabie. The results were not good, tank was empty. Also tried a couple of other low GI options but found that high GI gives me best results while racing. Training and living LCHF but racing with carbs.

[DaleE]

I tried UCAN a year ago at Barberton & Sabie. The results were not good, tank was empty. Also tried a couple of other low GI options but found that high GI gives me best results while racing. Training and living LCHF but racing with carbs.

 

Interesting.

Are you (still) following a MAF style training regime? or do you include some hi-intensity stuff? If you are doing hi-intensity sessions, are these on water only?

[jcza]

Interesting.

Are you (still) following a MAF style training regime? or do you include some hi-intensity stuff? If you are doing hi-intensity sessions, are these on water only?

 

Most of my training is done on road bike at low heart rate and with water only. Hi intensity is twice a week, water only and around 50 mins per session.

[davetapson]

Dale, my understanding of carb intake when racing is that you want the carb to be as quickly available as possible. The theory being that at high intensities one does require carb input, and there is no particularly obvious reason to make these carbs hard to get at (i.e. low g.i.) as they are the limiting factor to performance.

 

The marketing of low gi products is generally based on that they don't spike blood sugar while under conditions of exercise. It turns out that blood sugar doesn't spike anyway under conditions of exercise so the theory sounds good until you examine it a bit.

 

If this post is trying to teach you how to suck eggs, I apologise and please ignore

[davetapson]

And, curiously enough, on twitter....

 

 

Gagliardo ‏@fermionichadronJan 19 Can I get a @ProfTimNoakes opinion on this? “@whsource "ketogenic diet causes glucose intolerance" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24398402 ”

Tim Noakes‏@ProfTimNoakes

 

@fermionichadron @whsource Mice are not (wo)men. Most of these findings are the opposite of what happens to humans eating LCHF. Study humans

Edited January 20, 2014 by davetapson