LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[deanbean]

If anyone gets a price list from crede, please post.

I rode my first 4hr+ ride on lchf today without carbs. I found that my energy seemed to come and go. I'd be struggling along, avoiding the bonk, then suddenly I'd be able to pick up the pace and catch everyone. Then I'd have no power again. It was a hard ride, constant deep tech river crossings and steep hills.

It was an interesting morning. I rode with a buddy who's type 2 on a conventional diabetic diet, and it was interesting comparing energy levels. We were pretty much even.

[Cois]

 

Food for thought

 

[davetapson]

If anyone gets a price list from crede, please post.

I rode my first 4hr+ ride on lchf today without carbs. I found that my energy seemed to come and go. I'd be struggling along, avoiding the bonk, then suddenly I'd be able to pick up the pace and catch everyone. Then I'd have no power again. It was a hard ride, constant deep tech river crossings and steep hills.

It was an interesting morning. I rode with a buddy who's type 2 on a conventional diabetic diet, and it was interesting comparing energy levels. We were pretty much even.

 

Stick at it Dean. Since I have started on JC/HM's strategy of using gels etc during races, I can't believe the energy I have. Have just completed an epic Sabie (7:30+) due to rain/mud and finished with energy to spare. My problem is still cramping, which I still ascribe to mg deficiency (although I'd be hard pressed to defend the 'but you're probably undertrained for the pace you are attempting argument'). I have found that i can manage the cramps by taking 2 Rennies per hour (only figured this out during Sabie - normally I wait for the cramps and then eat the Rennies)

 

So, for me, the limiting factor is now not energy - but the level of effort that I can sustain without cramping. I have a suspicion that my energy availability now exceeds my strength, and strength (or mg supplementation) needs to catch up. Have started incorporating HIIT into my training and hopefully strength will catch up with available energy.

 

Regarding what I eat during races, I find that gels (Cadence) seem to work the best. Tried bars during Sabie but not so convinced. I did the half mara on Sunday as well, and in 45k of quite hilly course I used 1 gel and the rest was banana's and coke - which seemed to work fine.

 

So bottom line, as JC and HM have said before, your fuel consumption when adapted is far more efficient than when non adapted.

 

Edit: And with my current strength vs energy availability, bonking is completely a thing of the past. Couldn't bonk if I tried. Will see if this changes as my strength (hopefully ) increases.

Edited February 24, 2014 by davetapson

[deanbean]

I'm not going to give up, but it is a long slog, and included in it is a bit of a hiatus from training. The worst was that we had a 13yo girl riding with us on Sun, and she was stronger than me, something that I'm not used to.

 

WRT cramps, are you drinking enough water, when you are not riding. I picked that up in an article that I read, maybe by Eades??? where he says that he cramps up a lot if he doesn't keep hydrating throughout the day. I have picked up my water consumption, with a full 800ml water bottle with me all the time that gets filled up whenever there is a decent water source (it helps that our water is the sweetest I've ever tasted). I'd normally have cramped on the ride yesterday, but I didn't, not even a twinge.

 

edit: decent water source= a water pool without cow cr@p in it

Edited February 24, 2014 by deanbean

[davetapson]

WRT cramps, are you drinking enough water, when you are not riding. I picked that up in an article that I read, maybe by Eades??? where he says that he cramps up a lot if he doesn't keep hydrating throughout the day.

 

No - I'm pretty blase about my hydration. Have found out that I don't use so much any more.

 

I will be more conscious about hydration and see if that makes a difference.

[jcza]

Stick at it Dean. Since I have started on JC/HM's strategy of using gels etc during races, I can't believe the energy I have. Have just completed an epic Sabie (7:30+) due to rain/mud and finished with energy to spare. My problem is still cramping, which I still ascribe to mg deficiency (although I'd be hard pressed to defend the 'but you're probably undertrained for the pace you are attempting argument'). I have found that i can manage the cramps by taking 2 Rennies per hour (only figured this out during Sabie - normally I wait for the cramps and then eat the Rennies)

 

So, for me, the limiting factor is now not energy - but the level of effort that I can sustain without cramping. I have a suspicion that my energy availability now exceeds my strength, and strength (or mg supplementation) needs to catch up. Have started incorporating HIIT into my training and hopefully strength will catch up with available energy.

 

Regarding what I eat during races, I find that gels (Cadence) seem to work the best. Tried bars during Sabie but not so convinced. I did the half mara on Sunday as well, and in 45k of quite hilly course I used 1 gel and the rest was banana's and coke - which seemed to work fine.

 

So bottom line, as JC and HM have said before, your fuel consumption when adapted is far more efficient than when non adapted.

 

Edit: And with my current strength vs energy availability, bonking is completely a thing of the past. Couldn't bonk if I tried. Will see if this changes as my strength (hopefully ) increases.

 

Well done Dave! We still need to have a beer.

 

EDIT: Sorry make that a glass of red instead

Edited February 24, 2014 by jcza

[kevin Walter]

Just to let you guys know your not alone, I also had a rough weekend tried to hit vangaalens twice, the first day was average to bad but the second day was hopeless. I rode 7km then had to turn around and cruise home. I think it was a combo of a rough training week as well as with the HFLC diet. I find that I recover much slower after a tough ride like that , my body just said no more.

 

I will continue with HFLC but when having a intense session of more than 2 hrs I think a few more carbs during and even after the ride will be in order in future.

 

I think you need to balance building the fat burning machine and also building the rest of your body too.

[jcza]

I would guess that it takes 6 months or more before you will be back to racepace. It is very frustrating and tempting to quit when the pace goes up and you don't have power to go with. Persevere it is worth it!

[wonduhboy]

For those of you in JHB, I found a restaurant who are serving food along these lines. First one I have found.

Anyway, they give you this along with their normal menu:

 

 

I had a Burger with Bacon, avo and Gorgonzola:

 

 

If you are interested, it's the Cheese Gourmet Cafe in Linden, just down the road from Linden Cycles on 3rd Ave.

 

Tim Noakes also retweeted my tweet. In total I got 39 retweets and 30 favourites.

So basically, I won Twitter on Saturday

[davetapson]

Well done Dave! We still need to have a beer.

 

EDIT: Sorry make that a glass of red instead

 

It'll have to be beer. Dean says that hydration is paramount...

[Mikesa9]

Short answer: You should see pretty notable results after a month, 2 weeks prob a little soon. The results I would expect would be more to do with maintaining higher energy levels well riding and as a result being faster.

 

Long answer: I hit that maffetone style training where i limited my HR to 180-age-5 when training and I put hours in (12+hrs a week) for around 6 months. Theres no doubt it works and improved my stamina for the long days in the saddle because your fat burning system is trained up in the end I could ride for 6 hr periods with minimal carbs (dried fruit, biltong and nuts only) and was faster than when I started. I hit a plateau though where I was exhausted, always on the verge of knee injuries (from high wear) and was not improving anymore..

 

I have since gone to a coach (bikefit.co.za) who throws hard intervals at you twice a week with base training over the weekend (currently I'm putting in 6-10hrs a week). I've been doing this since Nov last year and I must say the results are far more noticable and I would recommend this style of training. After the first month I was already far fitter than I'de ever been and actually more rested too. You could even just get a training program electronically and do the training at home if coaching doesn't fit the budget (coaching is around R550 a month) and personal time etc, these programs are emailed at the begging of the week and your results are monitored to make sure you are progressing.

 

Good luck with the training!

I'm with you on this one. Mark has changed the way I train, giving me a lot more time, because of the shorter training time, to get on with my life. I certainly feel a lot stronger, but I am a little worried about going against the mainstream thought of "time in the saddle".

 

What is also interesting, is that he a a nutritionist as a partner. He apparently advocates a low carb diet, but also a low fat diet. I just can't see a diet like that being sustainable.

[McD23]

Stick at it Dean. Since I have started on JC/HM's strategy of using gels etc during races, I can't believe the energy I have. Have just completed an epic Sabie (7:30+) due to rain/mud and finished with energy to spare. My problem is still cramping, which I still ascribe to mg deficiency (although I'd be hard pressed to defend the 'but you're probably undertrained for the pace you are attempting argument'). I have found that i can manage the cramps by taking 2 Rennies per hour (only figured this out during Sabie - normally I wait for the cramps and then eat the Rennies)

 

So, for me, the limiting factor is now not energy - but the level of effort that I can sustain without cramping. I have a suspicion that my energy availability now exceeds my strength, and strength (or mg supplementation) needs to catch up. Have started incorporating HIIT into my training and hopefully strength will catch up with available energy.

 

Regarding what I eat during races, I find that gels (Cadence) seem to work the best. Tried bars during Sabie but not so convinced. I did the half mara on Sunday as well, and in 45k of quite hilly course I used 1 gel and the rest was banana's and coke - which seemed to work fine.

 

So bottom line, as JC and HM have said before, your fuel consumption when adapted is far more efficient than when non adapted.

 

Edit: And with my current strength vs energy availability, bonking is completely a thing of the past. Couldn't bonk if I tried. Will see if this changes as my strength (hopefully ) increases.

Supporting what Dave has to say..

I did Tankwa and GR300 past two weekends, both good results in top twenty.

I maintained LCHF outside of race for Tankwa, but took Gi32 liquid and bars ( 1 per stage between waterpoints, generally only stop on 2nd wp ) coke, banana and potato during race.

GR300 I had carb for Breakfast ( oats and rye bread ) Gi32 liquid and bar (1per stage and 2 gu's per stage )

Felt much stronger and held a much more consistent tempo power ride for duration of race Fri (Sat had the runs, not a good day ) and Sun was strongest I have felt in ages.

To sum it up, I now fuel to race , that means shovelling quick energy down my throat, not necessarily good energy in the traditional LCHF sense !

[davetapson]

Phinney and Volek on magnesium (from Phinney, Stephen; Volek, Jeff (2012-06-15). The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance. )

 

If you have ever been brought up short in training or in competition by a muscle cramp, you need to read this section. Ask most coaches or most doctors what causes muscle cramps and you will hear: a) dehydration, b) not enough potassium, or c) not enough calcium. Only a few percent of either group will tell you that you’ve got a magnesium problem, but those few are usually right.

 

Magnesium resides inside our cells. There is very little of it in serum, so blood tests for this mineral can’t tell us if we are okay or not. As a result, doctors (who rely on blood tests for most assays), are generally clueless about magnesium.

 

Magnesium calms muscles (including the heart), nerves, and the brain. When magnesium levels fall in these organs, they get ‘twitchy’. Stress them with intense exercise, sleep deprivation, or not enough fuel, and twitchy becomes spasm (aka cramping). If a muscle cramps, you stop using it. If your brain cramps, you have a seizure. If your heart cramps, you die. Luckily, these last two signs of magnesium depletion are rare. But we’ve all seen hundreds of athletes cramp a muscle, but seldom do they know why.

 

Because magnesium is critical for muscle function, there’s quite a bit of it in meat. But if you boil or process that meat (like make it into a hot dog), most of the magnesium is lost. Similarly, magnesium is the mineral at the core of chlorophyll – the green stuff that makes photosynthesis (and thus all sunlight-powered life) possible. The darker green the vegetable, the more magnesium it contains. But if you boil it until it’s mushy, when you throw away the water, you throw away much of the magnesium.

 

So here’s the key to getting enough magnesium from your diet. When you cook meat, capture the drippings and add it back as sauce. If you boil meat or bones, drink the broth or reduce it to make sauce. Steam vegetables rather than boiling them, and cook them until they are ‘al dente’ (to the tooth) rather than soft enough to eat without teeth. Do all of these things routinely and you’ll probably get enough magnesium from your diet without supplements.

 

But if you have frequent muscle cramps, your first order of business is to make them stop. Cramps during or after exercise, or even at night, are a sign that your body has a major magnesium deficit. So here’s the shortcut to ending most night-time or post-exercise muscle cramps. Take 3 slow-release magnesium tablets daily for 20 days. The proprietary brand-name product is ‘Slow-Mag’ ™, but there are a number of equally effective generics now available at a fraction of the brand-name price (e.g., Mag-64™ or Mag-Delay™). Most people’s cramps cease within 2 weeks of starting this dose of Slow-Mag™, but you should continue to take the full 20-day course (60 tablets per bottle at 3 per day lasts 20 days). If the cramps return later, do it again, but after re-doing those first 20 days at 3 pills per day, then continue taking one pill per day. If despite this, the cramps return, take 2 pills per day for perpetuity. Most people can

 

Phinney, Stephen; Volek, Jeff (2012-06-15). The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance (Kindle Locations 1108-1122). Beyond Obesity LLC. Kindle Edition.

[davetapson]

And their summary at the end of the chapter:

 

Summary

 

The key information in this chapter specific to low carbohydrate diets is that you need a consistent, modest intake of salt (sodium) along with a consistent intake of potassium when you are keto-adapted. Everyone who follows a low carbohydrate life-style needs to heed this caution, because not doing so will dependably lead to fatigue, light-headedness, and impaired physical performance.

 

Phinney, Stephen; Volek, Jeff (2012-06-15). The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance (Kindle Locations 1147-1150). Beyond Obesity LLC. Kindle Edition.

[davetapson]

What they said about Potassium:

 

When someone says ‘potassium’, dietitians instantly think ‘orange juice’ and ‘bananas’, neither of which is much help if you want to stay keto-adapted. Few dietitians think of meats and low starch vegetables as

 

excellent sources of potassium, but they are. There’s as much potassium in 4 oz of meat as in a medium banana or 8 oz of orange juice. However the Achilles heel of meat and vegetables as potassium sources is how they are prepared. Boil either one and much of the potassium is lost in the broth. If you grill your meat to medium well done, much of the potassium leaves with the drippings.

 

The obvious solution is to not discard ‘the solution’ (i.e., the potassium-containing broth and drippings). Cook meats so the drippings aren’t lost and steam or sauté vegetables rather than boiling them. Enjoy your daily allotments of berries, nuts, and seeds, which all contain appreciable amounts of potassium. Most importantly, consider making your own broth. A chicken carcass boiled for a few hours gives up much of its potassium to the broth, as is true for beef bones and scraps as well. Add all of these together and a well-formulated low carbohydrate diet turns out to be richly endowed with potassium, one of the key minerals keeping you upright and functioning well.

 

Phinney, Stephen; Volek, Jeff (2012-06-15). The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance (Kindle Locations 1083-1091). Beyond Obesity LLC. Kindle Edition.

[deanbean]

Excellent Letter in the Cape Times, via Ride Mag

An open letter to Tim Noakes, published in the Cape Times this morning, love it!

 

Dear Tim, I am sad to say, but you have single-handedly killed the allure and fun of the weekend dinner party with friends! Gone are the days when we could sit around the 12 seater table eating, drinking favourite tipple and laughing until the early hours while engaging in varied entertaining topics without resorting to sleep inducing dietary dialogue, focussed obsessively on abc (anything but carbos!). Gone are the days when gracious, generous hosts could present a menu and array of wines without fear of alienating some of their guests.( Of course, friends with allergies and vegetarian preferences will always be catered for accordingly.) Gone are the days of spontaneous “pop over for a casual supper tonight” invites. You have created a new genre of diet obsessed, paranoid, anal, halitosis plagued, baby boomers who have, thanks to your preaching, degenerated into what can only be described as social misfits focussed solely on their weight and next fat laden, carbo and sugar free meal of eggs, bacon, chops etc with a smattering of vegetables and a few strands of lettuce garnished with slices of thinly cut cucumber! Followed by an ‘abs’ (anything but sugar) desert of sugar free, colourless, flavourless, plain yogurt sprinkled with a few tartish red berries!

 

In an attempt to cope with these ‘abc’ and ‘abs’ dinner parties you have spawned, I find myself sneaking a pre-cooked potato, stuffed with delicious spinach and feta, into a specially modified pocket in my wine carrier and slipping out into the garden for my carbo load. Hopefully, without the hosts or anaemic looking Noakes devotees noticing ! I am working on a way of smuggling in my favourite pasta dish, but this is a little more challenging! Not to mention my own crème brulee or ice cream and brandy tart desert!! These might sound like drastic measures, but I am desperate to stay in touch with old friends who have lost their way. Friends with whom I used to run umpteen marathons in the 80’s and 90’s with your first book “The Lore of Running” permanently beside our beds for inspiration and guidance. A book that mercifully encouraged us to eat pasta, potatoes, bread, carrot cake, croissants, muffins and be merry! The merry bit included one’s favourite beer!

 

Tim, having just spent 6 weeks holidaying at Kenton-on- Sea, I should warn you that the farmers in the Southwell region of the Albany district in the Eastern Cape are going flat out working on a counter revolutionary movement to bring their ‘tatoes’ back to the dinner table!

 

I look forward to the day when AbN (Anything but Noakes) dinner parties start making their comeback on the social calendar.

 

‘Yores’ in running, Bill Stephens