SwissVan Posted July 24, 2013 Share Swiss, i am not in any way saying that a minor offence should be swept away, there must be repurcussions, but does a minor infringement deserve a lifetime ban as some are suggesting? When I first came onto the hub many moons ago hubbers were discussing the same question and well here we are still..... IMHO If the end goal is TRY end substance abuse / doping in sport, then Yes zero tolerance. A pissy 2 year suspension or even less in some cases is not a significant deterrent. EDIT: Maybe the banned substance list might need to revised. Edited July 24, 2013 by SwissVan dracs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted July 24, 2013 Share "Do or do not, there is no try errrhmmmm" master Yoda SwissVan and Stefmyster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynehans Posted July 24, 2013 Share Guys, anyone who gos to Gym frequently, knows the Big Boy Bunch in the corner. Walk over there and hint at something and Walla! They can get anything for u. No script needed. It happens in all gyms. If it's on the list don't use it!!!!!! Drug free are serious about this ****.Neil MacDonald @neiltchmil16hBlood control number 9 for me this year. Drug-free making a big effort to keep our sport clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURFER Posted July 24, 2013 Share Lots of high-horsing with this topic but I look at these drugs which are dubious performance enhancers and I wonder if things haven't gone too far? Surely if someone wants to cheat he won't take appetite suppressants? EPO is the drug of choice in this sport and the drug that gives most people the most benefit. It is also impossible to detect outside the "glow". Yes, it is expensive and Phentermine is cheap (I imagine) but that's certainly not the motivation that drove Pieter to taking a diet pill. I imagine he took it 'cause he was feeling a bit tight in his pants and tries to eat less. He may even be unaware of the effects of high-carb diets and supplements on your appetite and the very stuff that fuels him is making him constantly hungry. We could of course argue that he wanted to loose weight to win but I find it difficult to relate that to cheating. Boxers de-hydrate before weigh-in. Arguably cycling is not about the actual number on the scale and less weight is an advantage. However, if this was a calculated move and Pieter took one look at the list of nasty side-effects, many of which are counter-productive to cycling, he would have chosen another cheating drug, not Phentermine. I think we're in madness territory. Phentermine is on itself not the problem (they do not take it for weight loss). It mask the real performance drug. If it did not mask the real performance drug, it would'nt have been on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavmeister Posted July 24, 2013 Share I don't think all these "substances" get added willy nilly to the list of banned products, they all have their purpose, would Phentermine be classified as a diuretic? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diuretic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted July 24, 2013 Share That's like sending little Johnny to the dunce corner for suspicion of not wearing any underpants because his boner is showing when Ms Fine walks in to deliver the Maths class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoBigBen Posted July 24, 2013 Share snip snip snip The next step is gene manipulation and do we wont to go there cos that CANNOT be detected I wonder if gene manipulation will turn donkeys into race horses Wyatt Earp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted July 24, 2013 Share Sad news.Wayne, I agree with you fully as to your stance.I agree that if it was a mistake, it's a harsh sentence. The problem however one finds out too often, it was not really a mistake but more a process of what was a well educated and calculated decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted July 24, 2013 Share I wonder if gene manipulation will turn donkeys into race horses Some people have gene manipulation going on in their heads, they simply don't understand that if you had not been handed the talent from day one, no amount of training can change that. Chro Mo and NotSoBigBen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted July 24, 2013 Share Surprised how many people are defending Seyffert and in many cases these are the same ones who wanted to lynch Lance. Cheating is cheating and the drug is banned. There is no grey here. He is either a blatant cheat or extremely stupid and I suspect its the former - and I happen to know that his team owner for one has no sympathy. Guys like this damage things for their teams and colleagues not just themselves. Edited July 24, 2013 by dracs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted July 24, 2013 Share Phentermine is on itself not the problem (they do not take it for weight loss). It mask the real performance drug. If it did not mask the real performance drug, it would'nt have been on the list. OK, I understand. But.... there is still the issue that the Phentermine is not a performance-enhancing drug. Hypothetically speaking: I receive R60k back from the Receiver of Revenue and my friend and I enter the Epic. We are nobodies by anyone's standards. We hope to finish. I take Phentermine because I want to enter the race at 74kgs instead of 80. I pee, get caught and am banned for two years. Fair? Consider the question rhetoric since there are too many ifs and buts. Hopefully someone in charge is thinking this through very well - philosophically and scientifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted July 24, 2013 Share That's like sending little Johnny to the dunce corner for suspicion of not wearing any underpants because his boner is showing when Ms Fine walks in to deliver the Maths class...I can comfortably say that this image will remain with me all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted July 24, 2013 Share OK, I understand. But.... there is still the issue that the Phentermine is not a performance-enhancing drug. Hypothetically speaking: I receive R60k back from the Receiver of Revenue and my friend and I enter the Epic. We are nobodies by anyone's standards. We hope to finish. I take Phentermine because I want to enter the race at 74kgs instead of 80. I pee, get caught and am banned for two years. Fair? Consider the question rhetoric since there are too many ifs and buts. Hopefully someone in charge is thinking this through very well - philosophically and scientifically. If that is your story, you will be known as the hubber that doped at the Epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoBigBen Posted July 24, 2013 Share If that is your story, you will be known as the hubber that doped at the Epic. That horse has already bolted I'm afraid Wyatt Earp and Underachiever 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chro Mo Posted July 24, 2013 Share On a level playing field, genetics is the deciding factor between equally well trained and prepared athletes. This is not Formula 1, this is a bunch of people riding bikes. If I was doped to the gills, riding the lightest, most expensive bike available, and in the most state of the art kit available, my neighbor will beat me riding a Game special in cut-off jeans and a cotton shirt in flat pedals. He just has the required genetic makeup. I am genetically suited to picking up heavy stuff and cracking heads in a fight. I accept that. A professional should not have to take supplements to make him or herself faster. You are or you are not faster. A professional cyclist will not take a banned substance in error - I just don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted July 24, 2013 Share A professional cyclist will not take a banned substance in error - I just don't buy it. I get it and agree with you. Not because of the paragraph about cracking my head but the word professional in there. That changed it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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