Safety On The Spruit

[ChUkKy]

Again I am baffled at how it is acceptable to just make a dwelling when it is not land for dwellings!

 

What makes it more acceptable to do things that are unlawful? is it poverty?

 

If so where do you draw the line about where to draw the line about what type of crime is acceptable because of poverty?

 

Stop making excuses... kick these leeches out!

 

Give this man a Bells

[Ride-forest-ride!]

Sadly many of these homeless are good people, but their numbers need to be kept down and council clearly need our help with this. This petition will show government that the tax paying citizens care about the spruit and our environment cannot be ignored. Well done Parkmore Community Association for taking the initiative, I hope you get a huge number of signatures.

 

I have no quarrel with the homeless, but I don't like the sorting guys doing their good work on the banks of the spruit. I live in Parkmore and have seen these guys pulling whole black bin bags out of our pik-it-up bins and placing them into their wide canvass carts which they then empty out next to the spruit. They remove recyclables and the rest remains at the spruit.

 

Those of us who don't do our own sorting of rubbish need to start heading in that direction, because much of the garbage we trustingly toss into our pik-it-up bins is landing up at the spruit.

 

Lets support this initiative

[Pieter1]

As much as I agree with this there is that one guy in a wheel chair who lives close to Virgin active, I just call him Rasta, we have had some cool convesations. I feel sorry for him. But I agree that something has to be done about the situation as a whole.

[Dusty]

Apart from the ethical, social and economic issues that can be debated here, having a look at it from purely a selfish cyclists point of view, I'm all for having squatters on the Spruit. In my opinion having people around in numbers equates to safety. The Spruit is the 'home' of the 'homeless' living there. The vast majority of the people living on the Spruit have no wish to draw attention to themselves. Crime is bad for them too. Apart from being victims themselves they also stand to lose their 'homes'. I'll keep my signature.

[Robodog]

As much as I agree with this there is that one guy in a wheel chair who lives close to Virgin active, I just call him Rasta, we have had some cool convesations. I feel sorry for him. But I agree that something has to be done about the situation as a whole.

 

He has been there since I started riding the Spruit about 9 years ago - didn't think he would last this long as he got pretty sick through a couple of cold winters. I hear that certain residents always assist him with food, clothes etc. Those days you could ride up to Emmerentia on a weekend morning and not see another person: rider or walker. But that area (Linden?) dosn't have the same problems with squatters as Parkmore does.

 

 

[Hennie VR]

Apart from the ethical, social and economic issues that can be debated here, having a look at it from purely a selfish cyclists point of view, I'm all for having squatters on the Spruit. In my opinion having people around in numbers equates to safety. The Spruit is the 'home' of the 'homeless' living there. The vast majority of the people living on the Spruit have no wish to draw attention to themselves. Crime is bad for them too. Apart from being victims themselves they also stand to lose their 'homes'. I'll keep my signature.

 

I'm sorry but I think your answer is ridiculous. Homeless/poor/unemployed people = desperate hungry people which means they will do anything to fill their stomach. Your cellphone, wallet, bike might mean their next meal. Therefore if you have a whole lot of hungry people grouped together you have a small army which can be very dangerous. Have you seen hungry people fight over food in poor countries. They will kill if they have to. Therefore its not necessarily safety in numbers. Unfortunately the little money they do make does not mean that they spend it on food. A lot of it goes toward liquor and drugs which cause a whole lot of other problems for residents.

 

Yes I do sometimes feel sorry for these people but if you are going to allow illegal activities you are not helping the country out of its problems. Also, some of these people do make quite a bit of money but its convenient to stay in places close to work or in a area where they don't have to pay for something and that is why they live there.

[Uni]

 

 

I'm sorry but I think your answer is ridiculous. Homeless/poor/unemployed people = desperate hungry people which means they will do anything to fill their stomach. Your cellphone, wallet, bike might mean their next meal. Therefore if you have a whole lot of hungry people grouped together you have a small army which can be very dangerous. Have you seen hungry people fight over food in poor countries. They will kill if they have to. Therefore its not necessarily safety in numbers. Unfortunately the little money they do make does not mean that they spend it on food. A lot of it goes toward liquor and drugs which cause a whole lot of other problems for residents.

 

Yes I do sometimes feel sorry for these people but if you are going to allow illegal activities you are not helping the country out of its problems. Also, some of these people do make quite a bit of money but its convenient to stay in places close to work or in a area where they don't have to pay for something and that is why they live there.

 

As I read this, I hear about this on 702.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/09/16/homeless-guy-returns-backpack-stuffed-with-money/

 

[Hennie VR]

As I read this, I hear about this on 702.

http://newsfeed.time...fed-with-money/

 

Hahahaha. Ok ok, but that is more an exception than a norm. Look some of them are very good people. With that I can't argue, and some don't have any other choice but the point I am trying to make is that we have to stand up for the small things first. We must enforce the small laws first for if we don't the small crimes spill over into bigger ones which then creates a snowball effect. And this applies to us all. Stopping dead at a stop street, not speeding, bribing cops, copying music, driving with you fog lights on at night when there is no fog etc etc etc. These seem like small crimes but if you commit them what's the difference between you and any other criminal? That criminal also started doing crime on a small scale and got away with it, he then tried something bigger and got away with it and soon its armed robbery which can turn to murder. I am no angel myself but I do remind myself constantly if I do something wrong and I do try and stand up for what is right for if we don't we might as well throw the country to the dogs.

[Super_mil]

As much as I agree with this there is that one guy in a wheel chair who lives close to Virgin active, I just call him Rasta, we have had some cool convesations. I feel sorry for him. But I agree that something has to be done about the situation as a whole.

 

Pieter1 this petition is not about 1 homeless guy in a wheel chair, it's about the steadily growing community opposite Field n Study.

 

Apart from the ethical, social and economic issues that can be debated here, having a look at it from purely a selfish cyclists point of view, I'm all for having squatters on the Spruit. In my opinion having people around in numbers equates to safety. The Spruit is the 'home' of the 'homeless' living there. The vast majority of the people living on the Spruit have no wish to draw attention to themselves. Crime is bad for them too. Apart from being victims themselves they also stand to lose their 'homes'. I'll keep my signature.

 

Dusty that an interesting response, but as Hennie has replied these guys are desperate and I agree with him that a desperate collective could become a massive safety concern. Since these homeless guys add safety to the spruit, would you let your wife/girlfriend/mother utilize this stretch of river alone?

I suggest you take a walk from the broken palisade fence on Willam Nicol down to the weir and let me know how safe you feel moving through the area.

 

As I read this, I hear about this on 702.

http://newsfeed.time...fed-with-money/

 

Uni these examples can be found no question. We all believe there are good guys in the 'camp', however there are a number of examples where these guys have either been directly or indirectly aiding crime in the area. Taking the 'do nothing' approach here will result in this portion of the spruit becoming a 'no-go' zone (again, like it was when the bike-jacker was active). Chances are the petition won't make any massive difference but at least there will be (hopefully) some noise made in the right peoples ears who could place at least assess the situation and hopefully in due coarse address the issues, both for social users of the spruit & the guys occupying the area.

[RocknRolla]

I dont ride the spruit for exactly this reason.

 

I once rode down from fratellis to paulshof, and i must say i could for the life of me not figure out why people would WANT to ride there.

 

Good luck getting this problem sorted.

 

[ChUkKy]

I dont ride the spruit for exactly this reason.

 

I once rode down from fratellis to paulshof, and i must say i could for the life of me not figure out why people would WANT to ride there.

 

Good luck getting this problem sorted.

 

Thats the *** section... literally

It is a lekker ride if you go in a bunch, block your noses, turn a blind eye, all until you reach Fratellis

[nolipoli]

To make it a little easier for everyone, I have attached the petition here.

(I hope this works)

Braamfontein spruit Petition Letter 20130814.pdf

[Honkdonk]

An emotional topic to say the least.

While I am no fan of the Spruit it has its place and deserves the attention and upkeep in order to remain an asset to the city.

Its mostly a public space where folk are exercising their right to use for recreational activities, and given the amount of urban green belt that we don't have in Jhb it is in everyone's interests to make sure this facility is well looked after. The state of affairs of the country has unfortunately meant that certain areas have attracted vagrants. Simply put, they do not belong there.

While its unfair to paint them all with the same brush it remains a fact that some are innocent humble folk and others are more deviant.. Look at us as an example - some of us are pillars of the MTB community and others are the total opposite and give us all a bad name. Desperation will bring out the worst in mankind..

The simple fact that the Spruit has FREE ablution and washing facilities is the reason why these guys congregate their in the first place. However there is that good old thing called human rights, so in keeping with that the city needs to provide them with an alternative place of refuge and this is where it all falls flat. Petitions, protests and occasional clean ups, forceful or not, wont make the problem go away UNTIL such time as the council provide these guys with an alternative.

 

Until then safe cycling along the Spruit.

[beanz]

This is a really tough one.

On the one hand I recognise that these people are for the most part just going about the (very hard) business of living. They generally don't bother me and I greet them as I ride past, and they usually greet back. If it could stay that way I wouldn't have a problem with it.

On the other hand clearly the scope and scale of the problem is escalating, and if nothing is done about it, it could well become so extensive that 1) the element of crime inevitably manifests, and 2) the area becomes a no go area, and that part of the spruit is lost to cyclists and other recreational users. I have a big problem with the amount of litter left lying around.

Unfortunately it's one of these situations where by doing nothing about it, you are encouraging it. The need is so great that if it nobody objects, more people will move in, and it will soon become a fully fledged settlement/squatter camp. Once that happens it's pretty much a done deal.

It not about whether it's a nice section to ride or not. It's more that it links the north and the south section of the spruit.

I agree that the government/council should provide people with a viable alternative, but let's get real here.

[brendonwp]

@Merwe - As far as I can see the petition can be signed by anyone who is a resident of Joburg. I'm trying to get the Craighall Resident's Association to support it.