Shocking incident between van driver and cyclists in Camps Bay

[MadScientist]

Why would the group attack the driver who would be on the opposite side of the vehicle for spraying water on them?? They would go after the chaps in the back surely?

 

Again

We can go on and on trying different scenarios, but the outcome will all end up the same. what should have been done is no matter what happened the group should have been the men and let it go. If the driver caused damage or death the group should have reported it and let the law run it's cause.

 

Do you feel that anything that might possibly have happened can justify the action taken?

[Rifi]

 

Again

We can go on and on trying different scenarios, but the outcome will all end up the same. what should have been done is no matter what happened the group should have been the men and let it go. If the driver caused damage or death the group should have reported it and let the law run it's cause.

 

Do you feel that anything that might possibly have happened can justify the action taken?

 

No action in my opinion justifies brutality. If it were the case that water sachets were thrown, I would approached the van amicably expecting apology. If they became abrupt, I would of just reported it to the race organisers they were working for.

[MadScientist]

No action in my opinion justifies brutality. If it were the case that water sachets were thrown, I would approached the van amicably expecting apology. If they became abrupt, I would of just reported it to the race organisers they were working for.

 

That is the feeling of most of hub members, except for a few that insist on knowing the "full story" before getting of the wire and choosing an appropriate action.

[Tubehunter]

 

 

Again

We can go on and on trying different scenarios, but the outcome will all end up the same. what should have been done is no matter what happened the group should have been the men and let it go. If the driver caused damage or death the group should have reported it and let the law run it's cause.

 

Do you feel that anything that might possibly have happened can justify the action taken?

 

I'll post this piece again. The response was not appropriate irrespective of the provocation. Period!

 

However, I don't want to believe that a fellow cyclist can get this aggro over water sachets?? That's just total dumbass.

 

I could understand someone having this response after having just gone through a life threatening experience and would like to hear if that actually happened or not.

 

As a cyclist I have already admitted on this thread, that we will all have to raise our game to just get back to where we were ahead of this incident making international news.

[eddy]

Agreed - what is the legal situation re being part of a group and then not doing anything to stop an illegal action by the members of that group.

 

There is the doctrine of "common purpose" that broadly says that a criminal act by one member of a group is an act by them all. So if you and I had a common purpose to go and help ourselves to an S-works at Wyatt Earp's shop and whilst there you pull out your Glock and pop him, we can both be charged with murder.

 

This doctrine was controversially used during the 1980's to charge (and convict) of murder, bystanders at for example neck-lace killings where non-active members of a mob were seen as having common purpose with the actual killers.

[Rifi]

 

That is the feeling of most of hub members, except for a few that insist on knowing the "full story" before getting of the wire and choosing an appropriate action.

 

Could not help but share this. A few weeks ago, I was nearly run down with my son in the vehicle by a Rentokil vehicle (ironic, I know). As fate may have it, I ended up behind him in peak hour traffic. I had a choice, either get out of my car or follow the instructions on the vehicle to report bad driving. I chose the latter, not only because my son was with me but because in a flash, I realised the outcome. Eventually, on that same day, the same driver was sent to our offices where he apologised sincerely. I see it as a win win situation. He has learnt his lesson, I have gained a new friend. I left with these words :"There is no animosity between us, I would like to think that if I get along side the road and you in difficulty, that I can help you or visa versa". Violence solves nothing!

[canadonis]

 

Thats your call. Remember that 30 odd thousand cyclists and 100 odd thousand spectators only saw the youtube clip and are not following the rest of this story. Unless we have a conviction of the criminals responsible by Friday and it makes the front page by Saturday, this won't change.

You can expect to be sworn at, spit at, maced, perhaps even have a wheel slammed into your face. Not because you deserve it, but because the public out there is still angry about the whole thing and by wearing that jersey they might think that you are condoning your club members' actions (we know you mean the opposide, but they don't).

In the peloton you should be prepared to have a very lonely ride as riders are sure to avoid you and if you are in any of the more competitive bunches they'll try to drop you at the first opportunity as they would not want to be associated with that jersey that you are wearing so proudly.

My advise to you and your fellow club members is to rather see if you cannot get something out there on your ride to spread a message of tolerance and goodwill to fellow road users. Try to be as visible as possible. A banner at the startline, perhaps have your club chairman apologise before the start of the elites on national TV, or even a fund raiser to cover the damage to the van that was vandalised will go some way to repair your club's good name.

 

Hi Gluv

 

Thanks for your response and for your many constructive comments,

 

I agree the image and public perceptionof MCC has taken a beating with this unfortunate incident by a few members and MCC needs to look forward on ways to redeem themselves in the eyes of the public and more importantly, fellow cyclists.

 

I hope management heeds your recommendation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blackbeard]

 

 

Agreed, if this was the case I along with many others will be in a disciplinary after every ride.

 

We should have the right to display our dissatisfaction somehow; had the entire group surrounded the van and shouted at its occupants without the violent behavior due to the acknowledged pelting of cyclists by its passengers, would we consider it justified?

 

Hearsay of the driver's version that some of the cyclists may have got water sprayed at them while the van's passengers were horsing around does not equate to an acknowledged pelting of cyclists.

[ratherberidin']

Thats your call. Remember that 30 odd thousand cyclists and 100 odd thousand spectators only saw the youtube clip and are not following the rest of this story. Unless we have a conviction of the criminals responsible by Friday and it makes the front page by Saturday, this won't change.

You can expect to be sworn at, spit at, maced, perhaps even have a wheel slammed into your face. Not because you deserve it, but because the public out there is still angry about the whole thing and by wearing that jersey they might think that you are condoning your club members' actions (we know you mean the opposide, but they don't).

In the peloton you should be prepared to have a very lonely ride as riders are sure to avoid you and if you are in any of the more competitive bunches they'll try to drop you at the first opportunity as they would not want to be associated with that jersey that you are wearing so proudly.

My advise to you and your fellow club members is to rather see if you cannot get something out there on your ride to spread a message of tolerance and goodwill to fellow road users. Try to be as visible as possible. A banner at the startline, perhaps have your club chairman apologise before the start of the elites on national TV, or even a fund raiser to cover the damage to the van that was vandalised will go some way to repair your club's good name.

 

So our response to people behaving like apes, is behaving like apes to people? Nah. Sworn, spit at, maced and a high five to the face with a wheel because of an affiliation to a club whose name a few jerks tarnished is just as bad as the initial event itself. This is like foreigners saying South Africans are murderers when we know that it's only some. We'd want a break then, give the good okes in the club a break now.

[scotty]

A while back while cycling i stopped at an intersection when an elderly guy pulls up next to me, winds his window down and starts yelling at me about "julle blerrie fietsryers", took me a while to work out he was actually upset about an infringement by another group of cyclist. all i could do was repeat "jammer oom", after getting this off his chest he smiled, wished me safe cycling and went on his way.

 

My other option would have been to confront him and then proceed to rearrange his side mirror and tail lights.

[GLuvsMtb]

 

So our response to people behaving like apes, is behaving like apes to people? Nah. Sworn, spit at, maced and a high five to the face with a wheel because of an affiliation to a club whose name a few jerks tarnished is just as bad as the initial event itself. This is like foreigners saying South Africans are murderers when we know that it's only some. We'd want a break then, give the good okes in the club a break now.

I wont condone that sort of response. It does not mean that I don't expect it. Its like wearing a AWB uniform at an ANC rally. Its just asking for trouble.

[NotSoBigBen]

A while back while cycling i stopped at an intersection when an elderly guy pulls up next to me, winds his window down and starts yelling at me about "julle blerrie fietsryers", took me a while to work out he was actually upset about an infringement by another group of cyclist. all i could do was repeat "jammer oom", after getting this off his chest he smiled, wished me safe cycling and went on his way.

 

My other option would have been to confront him and then proceed to rearrange his side mirror and tail lights.

 

But then again you are a gentleman my friend!

[eddy]

Somehow I sense the driver's account is probably omitting the part where he tried to squeeze the group left along the road somewhere after words had already happened. Doubt a 19 year student would have the gall to admit to the media he thought it clever to show the group where he believed they should be riding by squeezing them along that stretch whilst they were at pace, especially if he was egged on by his mates in the back...

 

Let us for the moment accept your position as true. How does that change the legal position ?

 

My thinking keeps bringing me back to the same point. What did the driver do to warrant this response???

 

No matter what went before, what the video shows is an assault by the cyclists on the driver.

 

Earlier provocation is not legal justification for vigilante action. We may not like that, but that is the legal position.

Edited March 5, 2014 by eddy

[Rifi]

Something just struck me. The kids that were with, to some it was a traumatic experience. What about those poor kids. I pray that they find peace in their experience and try to move past it.

[McD23]

You know in my mind what the saddest thing is right now....

We can sit and debate the relevant merits of a unacceptable punch up where both parties probably had some sort of role to apportion for 63 pages...

But a triple family farm murder, where the mother goes to the airport to pick up the son to take home and surprise the father for his 70th birthday are brutally murder same day....cant even make as much news as these cyclist did in South Africa, or anywhere near 60 pages on the hub...

sad times,,,

[Antoo]

I find it very difficult to believe that the 30k cyclists doing the Argus will be 'gunning' for cyclists in MCC colours on the road.

 

It fascinates me that our moral outrage, at the incident in question, would cause some of us to threaten equally poor behaviour and we feel justified at that. We shall rally the masses to meter out mob justice...........

 

Enjoy the race guys and stand tall in your colours.