Shocking incident between van driver and cyclists in Camps Bay

[CAAD4]

Here's a hypothetical scenario for those of you still committed to this thread.

 

Straight up. What would be your response if the cycling mates you have are out on a ride with you and your bunch is say 20 strong. You're doing final prep for your full effort at a fast race. It's the weekend before and you're riding a recce race pace effort on the course. You enter the final 10 km stretch and start upping the pace. A Toyota Quantum carrying a bunch of kids starts hooting behind you as you cycle through a single lane road on your approach towards a section of road that becomes a dual carriage piece. It is not safe for the van to overtake your group as the road is too narrow for him to get by safely even if you ride in single file. For safety reasons you choose not to and remove the option for him to try. You're happily cruising along at a similar speed to motorized traffic along the stretch anyway. The van keeps hooting and the driver and his cohorts are hurling abuse at being held up. You enter the dual carriage piece traveling at close to the speed limit for vehicular traffic in the left lane and the van pulls alongside on your right. The side door opens and a bunch of teenagers start throwing water bombs at you from point blank range. Expletives are exchanged and then the driver decides to show your group what he thinks about being held up by squeezing the group as he begins to deliberately veer left into your group and then completely brake checks you with his abs equipped vehicle, putting your entire cycle group into PROPER danger. Who here climbs off their bike and calmly proceeds to have a civil discussion with the driver and his cronies about the situation at this point??

 

So you were with this group? Hypothetically of course...

[Peach.]

I would think to myself 'what kind of an idiot cycles along a route where they are hosting a run, couldn't they pick a different route'

 

I don't know about other people but I have no idea what running races are happening when or where, it's a sport I don't follow at all.

[Skubarra]

Here's a hypothetical scenario for those of you still committed to this thread.

 

Who here climbs off their bike and calmly proceeds to have a civil discussion with the driver and his cronies about the situation at this point??

 

Well the aftermath of the incident and what happened to Faizel and his buddy is the perfect example of what could happen to you if you don't...

 

Even if what you describe is exactly what actually happened, choosing to respond with violence saw them castigated by the general public, banished from the Argus and spending a night in jail. So a good lesson not to respond with violence even if it seems justified to you in the moment.

 

 

Since we are hypothesizing, a 19 year old student driver & minibus full of bored/excited students(?) involved with an altercation/incident... Remembering when I was a student that age, we were not exactly shining examples of responsibility and avoiding trouble. Would not be surprised if a few things went down before the incident.

[Tubehunter]

 

 

So you were with this group? Hypothetically of course...

 

Sadly I was not both hypothetically or in reality.

 

Amazing how far assumption can carry all of us though...

[Peach.]

Here's a hypothetical scenario for those of you still committed to this thread.

 

Straight up. What would be your response if the cycling mates you have are out on a ride with you and your bunch is say 20 strong. You're doing final prep for your full effort at a fast race. It's the weekend before and you're riding a recce race pace effort on the course. You enter the final 10 km stretch and start upping the pace. A Toyota Quantum carrying a bunch of kids starts hooting behind you as you cycle through a single lane road on your approach towards a section of road that becomes a dual carriage piece. It is not safe for the van to overtake your group as the road is too narrow for him to get by safely even if you ride in single file. For safety reasons you choose not to and remove the option for him to try. You're happily cruising along at a similar speed to motorized traffic along the stretch anyway. The van keeps hooting and the driver and his cohorts are hurling abuse at being held up. You enter the dual carriage piece traveling at close to the speed limit for vehicular traffic in the left lane and the van pulls alongside on your right. The side door opens and a bunch of teenagers start throwing water bombs at you from point blank range. Expletives are exchanged and then the driver decides to show your group what he thinks about being held up by squeezing the group as he begins to deliberately veer left into your group and then completely brake checks you with his abs equipped vehicle, putting your entire cycle group into PROPER danger. Who here climbs off their bike and calmly proceeds to have a civil discussion with the driver and his cronies about the situation at this point??

 

Just like all the other civilized hubbers, being the stand up guys we are.

I would take down the number plate and go report it to the police knowing that they would definitely be brought to justice

:lol:

 

yea right......

[Showtime]

Here's a hypothetical scenario for those of you still committed to this thread.

 

Straight up. What would be your response if the cycling mates you have are out on a ride with you and your bunch is say 20 strong. You're doing final prep for your full effort at a fast race. It's the weekend before and you're riding a recce race pace effort on the course. You enter the final 10 km stretch and start upping the pace. A Toyota Quantum carrying a bunch of kids starts hooting behind you as you cycle through a single lane road on your approach towards a section of road that becomes a dual carriage piece. It is not safe for the van to overtake your group as the road is too narrow for him to get by safely even if you ride in single file. For safety reasons you choose not to and remove the option for him to try. You're happily cruising along at a similar speed to motorized traffic along the stretch anyway. The van keeps hooting and the driver and his cohorts are hurling abuse at being held up. You enter the dual carriage piece traveling at close to the speed limit for vehicular traffic in the left lane and the van pulls alongside on your right. The side door opens and a bunch of teenagers start throwing water bombs at you from point blank range. Expletives are exchanged and then the driver decides to show your group what he thinks about being held up by squeezing the group as he begins to deliberately veer left into your group and then completely brake checks you with his abs equipped vehicle, putting your entire cycle group into PROPER danger. Who here climbs off their bike and calmly proceeds to have a civil discussion with the driver and his cronies about the situation at this point??

 

Every cyclist on this forum would politely apologise for inconveniencing the driver, offer to replace all the water sachets that were used to teach them the error in their ways and sommer buy the driver a Bells while they're at it.

 

I'm with you. The cyclist were wrong, no doubt about it but people don't react like that without extreme provocation. But then again if something similar to your scenario happened why haven't we heard their version of events yet?

[Blackbeard]

Sadly I was not both hypothetically or in reality.

 

Amazing how far assumption can carry all of us though...

 

Ditto speculation.

[Peach.]

I'm with you. The cyclist were wrong, no doubt about it but people don't react like that without extreme provocation. But then again if something similar to your scenario happened why haven't we heard their version of events yet?

 

Their lawyers have probably told them to keep quiet because they know whatever they say will get spun around and get completely distorted by the media.

[Tubehunter]

 

 

Every cyclist on this forum would politely apologise for inconveniencing the driver, offer to replace all the water sachets that were used to teach them the error in their ways and sommer buy the driver a Bells while they're at it.

 

I'm with you. The cyclist were wrong, no doubt about it but people don't react like that without extreme provocation. But then again if something similar to your scenario happened why haven't we heard their version of events yet?

 

This is pure speculation on my part from knowing the area and the circumstances we as cyclists typically face along this stretch of road around the peninsula.

 

I've seen a few riders of the club posting on this thread, but no one is giving any info in the lead up to the events witnessed on the video. Guess those facts may never come out or perhaps only trickle post disciplinary hearings.

 

Have ridden quite a few races with the members of this club and although their finer ettiquette in bunch racing is somewhat lacking, they are simply people who smile when they ride their bikes too. Somewhat intrigued to know what really went down to provoke them to the point we have all witnessed.

[Showtime]

This is pure speculation on my part from knowing the area and the circumstances we as cyclists typically face along this stretch of road around the peninsula.

 

I've seen a few riders of the club posting on this thread, but no one is giving any info in the lead up to the events witnessed on the video. Guess those facts may never come out or perhaps only trickle post disciplinary hearings.

 

Have ridden quite a few races with the members of this club and although their finer ettiquette in bunch racing is somewhat lacking, they are simply people who smile when they ride their bikes too. Somewhat intrigued to know what really went down to provoke them to the point we have all witnessed.

 

That's the same scenario I am picturing so very plausible.

 

I can't understand how people say the events leading to the fight are irrelevant. It would make a massive difference to public perception of the video and thus cyclists, greater even than publicly punishing them with every possible consequence.

[Gerlach]

The Pedal Power Association has withdrawn the 2014 Cape Argus Pick n Pay Momentum Cycle Tourentries of two of the riders who were involved in the incident during which a motorist was assaulted a few days ago in Sea Point.

In addition, these two cyclists have been suspended from the Association, pending a further disciplinary investigations. Further investigations are still underway regarding other individual/s involved.

The cyclists were arrested by the Police on Tuesday 3 March 2014 and spent the night in jail. They were due to appear in court today.

Source: http://www.pedalpower.org.za

[Tubehunter]

The Pedal Power Association has withdrawn the 2014 Cape Argus Pick n Pay Momentum Cycle Tourentries of two of the riders who were involved in the incident during which a motorist was assaulted a few days ago in Sea Point.

In addition, these two cyclists have been suspended from the Association, pending a further disciplinary investigations. Further investigations are still underway regarding other individual/s involved.

The cyclists were arrested by the Police on Tuesday 3 March 2014 and spent the night in jail. They were due to appear in court today.

Source: http://www.pedalpower.org.za

 

#4 is what you get. Yep, this news is on the thread 3 times already... Shot for the echo though Ger.

[canadonis]

 

 

That's the same scenario I am picturing so very plausible.

 

I can't understand how people say the events leading to the fight are irrelevant. It would make a massive difference to public perception of the video and thus cyclists, greater even than publicly punishing them with every possible consequence.

 

I'm glad people are beginning to look at scenarios that could have let to this extreme aggressive behaviour. I unfortunately do not have any answers either. These are experienced riders who have had encounters with cars or taxis in the past and to be honest the explanation of the group leader not paying any attention to rd and being surprised by a stationary vehicle being the cause for this fracas, I'm afraid does not sit very well with me. As a peloton leader you are vigilant to potholes manholes etc on the rd to warn those behind inthe group not able to see the rd, so really the probability of the group leader not seeing a Toyota van in his path is almost zero.

 

Guys think about this carefully as a cyclist have you ever taken you eyes off the rd soo long for a stationary vehicle that was always in your path to be visible at the very last minute that you almost collided with this vehicle; bearing in mind they were in a group so would not one of the other riders not warned the leader that he is not paying attention to the rd and he was heading towards this vehicle or was everyone not looking at the rd.

 

This by no means justifies the manner in which they expressed their frustration towards these youngsters, but we need to also be logical in our thinking especially when hearing anecdotal information.

[marko35s]

 

Their lawyers have probably told them to keep quiet because they know whatever they say will get spun around and get completely distorted by the media.

If thats the case can you explain why one of them went onto their Facebook page to gob off and brag about how they had shown people not to "mess with" their club? Is it some fiendishly clever tactic devised by their legal team or possibly the action of an amped up little cretin that wanted to show everybody how tough he is.

you know like children do before they grow up.

[Cassie]

#4 is what you get. Yep, this news is on the thread 3 times already... Shot for the echo though Ger.

 

What tyou expect...me to read all 1000 pages???

 

 

Can someone please give a synopsis of this here pages??? 50 words or less...

[GoLefty!!]

I'm glad people are beginning to look at scenarios that could have let to this extreme aggressive behaviour. I unfortunately do not have any answers either. These are experienced riders who have had encounters with cars or taxis in the past and to be honest the explanation of the group leader not paying any attention to rd and being surprised by a stationary vehicle being the cause for this fracas, I'm afraid does not sit very well with me. As a peloton leader you are vigilant to potholes manholes etc on the rd to warn those behind inthe group not able to see the rd, so really the probability of the group leader not seeing a Toyota van in his path is almost zero.

 

Guys think about this carefully as a cyclist have you ever taken you eyes off the rd soo long for a stationary vehicle that was always in your path to be visible at the very last minute that you almost collided with this vehicle; bearing in mind they were in a group so would not one of the other riders not warned the leader that he is not paying attention to the rd and he was heading towards this vehicle or was everyone not looking at the rd.

 

This by no means justifies the manner in which they expressed their frustration towards these youngsters, but we need to also be logical in our thinking especially when hearing anecdotal information.

 

 

A pal of mine once rode the length of Bergvliet road with his head down and straight into the back of a parked city golf. He too was racing league at the time and this incident occured a few weeks before Argus.

 

Argus time makes people do stoopit things...

 

just saying.

 

The facts are:

Eyewitness watched the lead rider looking over his right shoulder for an extended period of time. The rider then looked forward only to find the van in his path. He swerved to avoid the van, stopped his bicycle and proceded to have a verbal altercation. Then the fight started.

 

The other club members on that ride may provide other evidence that will add to and perhaps alter the direction the facts are pointing, but we will have to wait for the trial too start to hear those.

 

Want to help their cause, then its best to find similar facts rather than conjure up wonderful scenario's.

 

Yes people can be provoked into a blind rage. it really depends on what you have been exposed to prior to the "event" and how you dealt with it.

 

Being repeatedly exposed to close encounters with poor drivers and taxi's or GA buses (*^&%ers) could drive one to the tipping point.

GA bus drivers will look you in the eye and turn their bus toward you. That level of psychopath behaviour leads to a lot of traumatic stress.

 

I am sure there are cyclists out there who are constantly provoked by bad drivers and never deal with the experience through blogging about it or other means. Anger builds, one day you snap. Simple really. it would appear to me these two MC2 riders were suffering post traumatic stress of too many close encounters with shitty drivers and this incident was the straw that broke the camels back.

 

Still doesn't justify a mob assault but PTS is a mitigating factor as it can be treated. If won't change the charges or the outcome of whether guilty or not but it could affect the sentence.

 

This event should also be a wake up call for Mr Carlisle our transport MEC. Cape Towns roads are littered with **** drivers who have no clue what the rules of the road are. I have only once seen a traffic officer pull a driver over for a moving violation and that was yesterday on the N2 outside Somerset West. Woman was driving 50 on the N2... Minimum speed limit on a National road is 60km/hr. She got pulled over and fined.

 

Every morning in traffic I see nearly every driver with a cell phone in their hand texting or blogging while driving at 80-100km/hr.

 

But lets not twist this incident into something its not. Its not about those drivers, its about two cyclists who lost control of their emotions and drew others into a mob assault against a person the evidence suggests was an innocent bystander. Unfortunately that right there is a crime.

 

It should also be a wake up call for PPA and clubs. Somehow they need to get control of the riders and get people to follow simple rules of the road. The next campaign should be

 

Red Green Cyclist understand the Bloody DIFFERENCE!!!

Edited March 6, 2014 by GoLefty!!