Rogue Riders - need assistance identifying

[BigBoy10]

must say sounds like good plan to me, consequences for your actions simple

[GLuvsMtb]

trail tags: its listed against riders names: its a central d'base. Bans can be added to that d'base to flag event entries as non-permissible. That automagically kicks transgressors out of all registered events for that tag. In fact, the d'base can feed into d'bases for all other tag systems. One or two will always slip through non-race events, but their involvement is severely constrained at the race level.

 

I've always liked the idea of snapscan like payments for day entries, instead of prancing around with a silly board.  But i do understand there's always that 'element' that will take advantage of systems based on trust.

I recall that the big plus about a board with a unique number is that you are identifiable and that your identity can be traced back, provided that the trail center got reasonable assurance to your id (like scanning your drivers license / id upon issuing the board). Another advantage is that rogue riders are immediately identified. No trail marshal likes to stop riders to ask for their scan proof / day permit. Lets say that I trail tag / snap scan to enter a trail and I deliberately go off the trail (like up the concrete road at Meerendal). It would mean that someone now have to go through the database of scans and try to narrow down who the offenders might be, assuming that they actually scanned in. If they record my number board and compare it to the boards issued they have my details. I like the idea of automated day access, but it will have to be accompanied with expensive turnstall type equipment and expensive property boundaries to ensure reasonable compliance. 

 

I think therefor a hybrid solution is optimal where you are identifiable, but that validation of your details happens electronically (i.e. scanned ID / drivers) 

 

Access control is a minefield. I am the chairman of an HOA and we are implementing hand held scanners that scans driver ID's and the vehicle license disks of visitors upon entering the estate rather than manual logs being kept. You would be surprised how often I have signed in as "mickey mouse" and gave 082 123 4567 as my cell number and CA 123 456 as my car reg number without ever being challenged. 

 

It all probably sounds like total over-kill but the reality is that mountain biking is now a mainstream activity and access control systems will have to move with the times to ensure a good experience for riders, organisational bodies and land owners. 

[Disylizzy]

I just found out now that TMBC do support the AMArider rogue riding policy.  The biggest issue is being able to positively identify the transgressors.

 

Here's the policy:

Amarider Rogue Riding Policy 

As endorsed and supported by:

FNB W2W, ABSA Cape Epic, and MTB events organized by MTB Adventures, Stillwater Sport & Entertainment, Dirtopia and PPA. Trail systems supporting the policy include Delvera, Simonsberg/Knorhoek Valley, Welvanpas/Bain's Trails, Wannabees/Helderberg Trails, Paul Cluver, Oak Valley, trails managed by Tygerberg Mountain Bike Club and others.

This policy document is intended to coordinate the trail policing efforts of the various trail management stakeholders and provide effective consequence to trail users who fail to abide by the   “No Permit, No Ride” rule.

Incident reporting mechanism:

1) All incidents of rogue riding will be reported in writing making use of the official form available for download on theAmarider.co.za website. (Trail systems with websites can certainly carry this)
2) The report is first submitted to the trail steward/manager. Where a report is submitted directly to Amarider, the trail steward will first be notified.
3) It is up to the relevant trail system Chairman or Owner to escalate the incident to Amarider.
4) Once escalated to Amarider the rider is sent a written warning requesting him/her to cease the activity. The relevant trail manager is copied in this letter.
Trail Systems have 14 days from the date of the transgression to submit a report.
5) Step 4 places the rider on the 1st Transgression list (managed by Amarider)
6) Should a rider generate a second complaint (from same or other trail system) the rider will be required to sign an admission of guilt form. To prevent him/her from being placed on the Banned Rider list, a R1000 fine is payable to Amarider. Failure to sign the admission of guilt form automatically places the rider on the Banned Rider List.
7)A 3rd transgression moves the rider to the Banned Rider List. A rider will be banned for 1 year from the time of being placed on the Banned Rider List.
8) A rider wishing to protest against any consequence as described in the points above will have the right to a disciplinary hearing. The disciplinary committee will comprise of the Director of Amarider and a representative of the relevant trail system(s).
9) Trail Systems reserve the right to institute internal disciplinary processes prior to escalating a report to Amarider. These could take the shape of warnings and fines.
10) Transgression reports can be submitted to info@amarider.co.za 

[EmptyB]

So it's on Facebook and on here.By now, these chops have obviously been told/warned about it by someone. According to FB, the have a lead on the one guy.

 

Interesting to see what happens next...........

[Ryan100]

Two wrongs unfortunately does not make a right. Land owners / the club taking the law into their own hands can only end one way... badly. I would rather get SAPS to arrest a few of these goons on a Saturday morning for trespassing and let them sleep at the Durbanville Police Holding Cells Saturday evening and Sunday evening. 

I know, was just venting. I really and truely dont understand how you can spend 10's of thousands of rands on the bike and how much every month on tyres and gels and gadgets etc etc etc. But you can't spend R600 on the permit to ride on someones private land, and the cost of building the trails and looking after it. Drives me crazy.

 

Thumbs up to the land owners for letting us ride and to the committee and  trail builders for all their hard work

[Skubarra]

I just found out now that TMBC do support the AMArider rogue riding policy.  The biggest issue is being able to positively identify the transgressors.

 

 

7)A 3rd transgression moves the rider to the Banned Rider List. A rider will be banned for 1 year from the time of being placed on the Banned Rider List.

 

 

OK - this was started in June, it is now 6 months later

 

How many riders are now on the banned rider list? None that I know of. Is there even a banned rider list? Do we seriously think rogue riders are intimidated by this kind of talk when no action is taken?

 

I take this list about as serious as that new 1m passing law in the Western Cape (but that's a different thread...)

[Disylizzy]

OK - this was started in June, it is now 6 months later

 

How many riders are now on the banned rider list? None that I know of. Is there even a banned rider list? Do we seriously think rogue riders are intimidated by this kind of talk when no action is taken?

 

I take this list about as serious as that new 1m passing law in the Western Cape (but that's a different thread...)

 

The biggest problem is being able to positively identify the transgressors.

 

Also the riders will only be placed on the banned list after 3 transgressions against them.

[milky4130]

Snapscan is now in place at Hoogekraal

1

 

[Musketeer]

I have been reading through this thread and have picked up a couple of varied views and opinions but one thing that shines through is that we are all sick and tired of these types of goons buggering it up for the rest of us.

 

I'm a member of TBMTB and I always pay my dues on the other trails that I ride which is not part of the club and so do our group. Honesty and respect begins at home and my feeling is that you will never be able to eradicate this type of behaviour completely, but making a conscious effort to bring the "caught" transgressors to book will certainly force the majority to rethink before they conduct such an offense.

 

In the end everybody is going to be hampered by this, members and non-members alike. If a land owner decides to close his property, it affects all. This type of behaviour might even force the "public" trails to reconsider as a person not adhering to the rules and conditions of the trail/ property presents a risk to the owner.

 

If all else fails... name and shame the living daylights out of these guys. 

[FCH]

I drive that concrete road up Bloemendal pretty regularly; the main more worrying aspect than trespassing is not that people are on private property without contributing to the efforts ( in itself it is the principal problem) the main issue for me is, the day will come that some chop guns down that road around a bend and be faced with an 2 ton piece of steel moving in the opposite direction- chops lawyers will take land owner to court for not enforcing or preventing rogue riders. The one with the smarter lawyer in the room, wins..... And we all loose.

 

I am all for name & shame; if you actually KNOW who it is, just seen a post of some creep in Cape Town masturbating next to road while looking at women drivers; someone was brave enough to "post" the name of the offender.... Seemingly not the right guy, hallo law suite.

[Eddy Gordo]

Personally I am not a fan of the 3 strike rule. Too many will get away with too much by the time they are even caught for the first time.

 

Maybe first incident = 3 month ban

second lets say a year

and third lifetime

 

I am all for access control turnstiles as well, but it does cost alot of money.

[Brickleberry]

Everyone here should get road bikes. No rogue roads in sight. Problem solved.

[Hairy]

Everyone here should get road bikes. No rogue roads in sight. Problem solved.

I prefer no roads in site vs rogues

[DIPSLICK]

Personally I am not a fan of the 3 strike rule. Too many will get away with too much by the time they are even caught for the first time.

 

Maybe first incident = 3 month ban

second lets say a year

and third lifetime

 

I am all for access control turnstiles as well, but it does cost alot of money.

thats the problem, anything that costs money will/should be carried over to the riders there really isnt a winning solution

imagine you pitch up for a ride and they say " oh SIR that will be R180 for your 40km trip  

its pretty much like a honesty bar 9/10 times they are closed because of 1% of the people who go to them, MTB will be the loser because of a couple of planks  

[MTBeer]

Everyone here should get road bikes. No rogue roads in sight. Problem solved.

road hahahahahahahaha!!! did he say road cycling? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah..........................................................................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MTBeer]

yes he said road!

 

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