Cyclists with a "Running" Problem

[Holmsie]

Howzit all,

Any recommendations on value-for-money trekking/trail running poles. Looking specifically for 3-piece Z-frame models (edit)..and adjustable length.

Any advice/recommendations ito of what features to look out for/avoid, carbon vs alu, weight, folding size etc ? 

I like the look of Leki (see below) but I'm pretty open to all suggestions.

Black Series FX Carbon (leki.co.za)

Cross Trail Lite TA (leki.co.za)

Cheers and thanks

Edited January 10 by Holmsie

[Holmsie]

Bump😁

[Shebeen]

23 hours ago, Holmsie said:

Howzit all,

Any recommendations on value-for-money trekking/trail running poles. Looking specifically for 3-piece Z-frame models (edit)..and adjustable length.

Any advice/recommendations ito of what features to look out for/avoid, carbon vs alu, weight, folding size etc ? 

I like the look of Leki (see below) but I'm pretty open to all suggestions.

Black Series FX Carbon (leki.co.za)

Cross Trail Lite TA (leki.co.za)

Cheers and thanks

umm,they all seem to look the same these days and probably come from the same factory. I've used the black diamond alu Zframes ones.

they are great  but will bend eventually if you take them on enough adventures (assuming you don't leave them behind in the bundu too when resting).

I currently have a pair of imported knockoffs, slightly heavier

 

The leki ones look cool, glovethingies must be nice and carbon seems to follow the bontrager strong:light:cheap axiom.

 

if you're not a total race snake the more budget fA/cum ones will be just fine. takealot has some proper cheepees too

 

 

[dave303e]

On 1/10/2024 at 3:14 PM, Holmsie said:

Howzit all,

Any recommendations on value-for-money trekking/trail running poles. Looking specifically for 3-piece Z-frame models (edit)..and adjustable length.

Any advice/recommendations ito of what features to look out for/avoid, carbon vs alu, weight, folding size etc ? 

I like the look of Leki (see below) but I'm pretty open to all suggestions.

Black Series FX Carbon (leki.co.za)

Cross Trail Lite TA (leki.co.za)

Cheers and thanks

Unpopular opinion, these are not made for sharing so decide they are yours and get the right length for you and don't get adjustable Z poles. Any telescopic system will fail eventually and they are just a faf all the time.

Z poles are the best way to go, personally the black diamond distance carbon ones are amazing, they are light and they are solid. Mine have taken a lot of abuse and are still perfect.

I am weary of the glove models vs standard fixed straps. Saw a person at ARWC who lost the glove during the race and then had a trekking pole with no strap/glove, makes it really useless.

Carbon for the weight, aluminum for the price. Up to you. 

Z poles can be a pain to carry when you not using them. Salomon make a quiver that you can attach to a bag. It works great and you can get them in and out of there in a flash with no faffing.

[Holmsie]

Thanks @Shebeen and @dave303e, appreciate your thoughts. Great points regarding the glove thingies - I hadn't thought about what happens if you loose one mid race. 

Noted re adjustment as well, just one more thing to fail. 

I'll have a  closer look at the Black Diamond range.

Thanks again.

[Jewbacca]

 

13 minutes ago, Holmsie said:

Thanks @Shebeen and @dave303e, appreciate your thoughts. Great points regarding the glove thingies - I hadn't thought about what happens if you loose one mid race. 

Noted re adjustment as well, just one more thing to fail. 

I'll have a  closer look at the Black Diamond range.

Thanks again.

I got pretty good miles out of a set of carbon/Alu mix nature hike ones. 

They were relatively inexpensive but lasted me a few good years of quite solid use and abuse.

In fact, they were still very useable until I leant them to someone and they came back wrecked and retired. 

I am yet to replace them as I am overwhelmed by all the different options these days!

[Holmsie]

5 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

 

I got pretty good miles out of a set of carbon/Alu mix nature hike ones. 

They were relatively inexpensive but lasted me a few good years of quite solid use and abuse.

In fact, they were still very useable until I leant them to someone and they came back wrecked and retired. 

I am yet to replace them as I am overwhelmed by all the different options these days!

Second time "being selfish" with them has come up. Point noted 😄! Thanks for the input @Jewbacca. 

[Jewbacca]

52 minutes ago, Holmsie said:

Second time "being selfish" with them has come up. Point noted 😄! Thanks for the input @Jewbacca. 

Since reading this I see Aoneji make alu Z-poles that weigh very little, seem pretty decent and only cost 799zar per pole.

I may get some this week

[Holmsie]

2 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Since reading this I see Aoneji make alu Z-poles that weigh very little, seem pretty decent and only cost 799zar per pole.

I may get some this week

I'll take a look too. Thanks for the heads-up.

[milky4130]

I’ll be venturing into the Ultra Trail Running Scene in the 2nd half of 2024 i.e. UTCT and maybe a couple of smaller events, so should I be investing in a set of these trekking poles? Seriously what is it’s purpose, just for support and balance?

[Jewbacca]

7 hours ago, milky4130 said:

I’ll be venturing into the Ultra Trail Running Scene in the 2nd half of 2024 i.e. UTCT and maybe a couple of smaller events, so should I be investing in a set of these trekking poles? Seriously what is it’s purpose, just for support and balance?

I'll have a go purely from an experience point of view, but I'm sure others will chime in and tell me I'm wrong.

I won't touch on the expedition racing side of using them as it's not relevant for you.

Over the years, I have flitted in and out of using trekking poles at running/ultra events. They are not am essential piece of kit FOR ME, but I know others who won't leave home without them.

I have done plenty of 100 milers without and plenty with. 

I won't take them for anything shorter than 100km as I think you should be 'running' most of that pretty comfortably. I am not a fan on using them on technical ascents or descents, I find they get stuck and get in the way and stop you from being able to use your hands/keep a low centre of gravity.

Where they become invaluable is the long stretches of undulating gravel road or firm paths. You can create a beautiful rhythm, the sound, the mechanics etc all become quite rhythmic. There is some sort of science behind them but I have found they provide support and seem to take some pressure off my lower legs/feet, be it imagined or not.

One thing that is massively important is being able to store them quickly without having to remove your pack. I have made the mistake of not having this sorted and once they were out they were out and once they were away they were away. I found I had them out in places I wanted to throw them away and stashed when I wanted them, so they were more junk than useful.

You also won't benefit from them unless you practice with them and use the loops correctly. So they are something you need to bond with. 

I am not a trekking pole or die person, but if doing a 100 miler or longer, will look at the route/terrain and decide if they are necessary. 

At MacMac 200 miler they were essential to getting me to the finish after I tore tendons in my knee at 90km ish. Used them to stabilise me and help my limp like crutches and protect what was left of my feet by the end. But still packed them away at times for the scrambles and steep stuff. 

Waffle waffle waffle..... In short, try them out, give them a good go and see if you like them. If you're not doing 100 milers or longer I don't think they are worth it. I've not used them for any of my 13 peaks missions despite carrying them. I used them the entire 22 hours during my trail running everest.

BUT that's me and some of my friends won't do the new 60km Puffer without them. 

Sorry for the thesis

 

[dave303e]

Ya I also pick and choose where to use them, 100 milers I will always have a pair with the 2nding team just for when the sh hits the proverbial fan as Jewbacca mentioned.

Fast runnable 100 miler like Karkloof I would definitely have a pair for in case. But I wouldn't carry them the whole way. 

For me big climbs are where they pay themselves off, you can pull your way up them. As an adventure racer I do some paddling training, I have got a good background in swimming and I am really good with a spade. So I have a solid upper body to put into the poles which saves the legs in a big way. If you have aid stations often they allow you to pick up and drop off poles as and when you need them so you can plan your race around that. UTMB you can see the top guys are poles out every climb and away for the runnable sections.

Back to a point I made earlier and Jewbacca also mentioned, storing poles and accessing them is key. If it is a faf you end up carrying them on your pack the whole way or in your hands the whole way. If your bag has a good way to put them away without taking pack off then you will use them better. Watch the top guys at UTMB, they take out and put away poles at pace with no faffing.

 

 

[Jewbacca]

1 hour ago, dave303e said:

Ya I also pick and choose where to use them, 100 milers I will always have a pair with the 2nding team just for when the sh hits the proverbial fan as Jewbacca mentioned.

Fast runnable 100 miler like Karkloof I would definitely have a pair for in case. But I wouldn't carry them the whole way. 

For me big climbs are where they pay themselves off, you can pull your way up them. As an adventure racer I do some paddling training, I have got a good background in swimming and I am really good with a spade. So I have a solid upper body to put into the poles which saves the legs in a big way. If you have aid stations often they allow you to pick up and drop off poles as and when you need them so you can plan your race around that. UTMB you can see the top guys are poles out every climb and away for the runnable sections.

Back to a point I made earlier and Jewbacca also mentioned, storing poles and accessing them is key. If it is a faf you end up carrying them on your pack the whole way or in your hands the whole way. If your bag has a good way to put them away without taking pack off then you will use them better. Watch the top guys at UTMB, they take out and put away poles at pace with no faffing.

 

 

This is a good indication of different uses. I am not a fan of using them on steep climbs in a running race. I find while they give me leverage, I move a LOT slower with poles out. A long, not so steep climb on a good track/road, yes, they're out.

On a super slow moving, loaded AR, definitely yes, but a running race not so much.

One thing not yet mentioned is the speed/goal and time on your feet you're looking to achieve. 

If you're going slowly, moving methodically and have preservation and finishing in mind, then I would say they are essential, even for 50km. I'd be wanting to move quickly and run most of that but I know some guys who spend 10 hours plus change out at the Bastille day run, which I would then suggest they will be invaluable. 

 

Edited January 12 by Jewbacca

[Holmsie]

10 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

This is a good indication of different uses. I am not a fan of using them on steep climbs in a running race. I find while they give me leverage, I move a LOT slower with poles out. A long, not so steep climb on a good track/road, yes, they're out.

On a super slow moving, loaded AR, definitely yes, but a running race not so much.

One thing not yet mentioned is the speed/goal and time on your feet you're looking to achieve. 

If you're going slowly, moving methodically and have preservation and finishing in mind, then I would say they are essential, even for 50km. I'd be wanting to move quickly and run most of that but I know some guys who spend 10 hours plus change out at the Bastille day run, which I would then suggest they will be invaluable. 

 

This is me. I'm a "completer" not a "competor" (sp)...It's exactly my reasoning behind wanting to use them. 

[milky4130]

Thanks @Jewbacca @dave303e So my take away is, its for support purposes and beneficial for climbing, anything to save the legs. UTCT will be my 1st 100 Miler, I'm realistic with my expectations as I'm relatively new to trail running. So just a finish is what I am saying now which is +-45 hours but my competitive nature will not allow that, I'll most likely go till I blow, if I can scrape in under 40 hours with the help of the poles then that is something I would like to explore.

[Jewbacca]

10 hours ago, milky4130 said:

Thanks @Jewbacca @dave303e So my take away is, its for support purposes and beneficial for climbing, anything to save the legs. UTCT will be my 1st 100 Miler, I'm realistic with my expectations as I'm relatively new to trail running. So just a finish is what I am saying now which is +-45 hours but my competitive nature will not allow that, I'll most likely go till I blow, if I can scrape in under 40 hours with the help of the poles then that is something I would like to explore.

hahahaha I'd recommend poles 

I would also recommend you don't go till you blow. Unlike a bike race, once you blow in a 100 miler, moving at a sustained  4kph gets difficult the deeper into the race you get. There are no free km.

It's a completely different discussion to the poles, which I 100% recommend going into your first 100 miler provided you practice with them and can stash/extract them easily.

I know it's a 'saying' with some jest behind it, but a HUGE part of getting done on a 100 miler is not blowing and it should be a big part of training leading up to the race.

100km is roughly 'half way' in terms of effort and if you haven't eaten proper food (not race bars, gels and junk, but real food) in large amounts the body and the mind will start having some objections around that mark. It's difficult to eat enough while going hard, so I'd suggest going easier the first 100km, almost in prep for the last 60. If you can sustain that 'way too slow pace for me' in the last 60 you will blow through the field.

You have my number, you're welcome to pick my brain with regards kit suggestions, food suggestions and even do a few long runs together. I plan on doing another 2 x 13 peaks on a weekend this year so joining for the first one might be a good idea. Get a 106km under the belt in August.

I'm no coach and I am certainly no pro, but I've done more than a few 100 milers and longer over the last 20 years