Cyclists with a "Running" Problem

[SwissVan]

Chatting with a friend of mine at a braai last week, he's got 3 silvers so I always like to hear his thoughts, he's adamant we train at too high a speed.

 

 

Ran my best 21k time years ago based on this advice.

It was given to me from an advanced run for life coach who was a Comrades gold medal runner.

 

Basically the only speed training we did was either a 5K TT or a 8 km fartlek session (roughly 2 minutes hard / 2 minutes easy) once a week.

[Andrew Steer]

Pirates Pub Run... entries just about sold out. Good fun night out 

 

https://www.facebook.com/events/124927934835448/128549214473320/?acontext=%7B%22ref%22%3A%2229%22%2C%22ref_notif_type%22%3A%22admin_plan_mall_activity%22%2C%22action_history%22%3A%22null%22%7D&notif_id=1508755814889398&notif_t=admin_plan_mall_activity

[Jackes]

Ran my best 21k time years ago based on this advice.

It was given to me from an advanced run for life coach who was a Comrades gold medal runner.

 

Basically the only speed training we did was either a 5K TT or a 8 km fartlek session (roughly 2 minutes hard / 2 minutes easy) once a week.

So that is one speed session per week.   No hill repeats?

[Hacc]

BR long term is the plan for sure, but to take two hours off my Comrades time in one year is probably a bit beyond me... I'm also just really not that committed, especially with two young girls at home that I don't like missing grow up. Certainly want to put myself in a position though were it looks like a more realistic jump. Let's just see how it goes for now

1 hour should be achievable, especially on the Down Run. I have done it in 2014 / 2015. That means you can have a two-year plan. Problem is then it will be an up run in 2019...

 

Thank you, Andrew, for your post. Interestingly enough I had the same conversation with a complete stranger after cycling. He has a couple of silvers and he now runs "way slower" BRs. He only races his qualifier marathon. All other marathons are seen as training and at a much slower pace. 

 

I am thinking of trying the same strategy. Please keep us posted on your progress. 

 

PS. Our club had a "pub" trail run the one year. It was hosted at Hobby Park in Roodepoort. We didn't have pubs on the route but we did have "water" points. It was so much fun, unfortunately, it got too expensive to do it again at Hobby Park.(New owners) 

[Barry Stuart]

I've set myself some slightly loftier goals for Comrades next year and so with that have had to look at doing some proper training and having a bit of a plan...

 

Chatting with a friend of mine at a braai last week, he's got 3 silvers so I always like to hear his thoughts, he's adamant we train at too high a speed. He's advised me to do most of my runs at a very easy 6:15-30 pace and in doing so it will allow me to run a lot more regularly as my legs won't tire nearly as much or pick up the niggles associated from pushing things a bit. And then through more regular running and the odd speed session I will get my general speed up over time. 

 

Just going on the end of last week, I did 10km Thurs, 10km Fri and 15km Sat all at that comfy easier pace and I must say my legs felt absolutely perfect despite the unfamiliarity of three back to back runs. I didn't run yesterday specifically (although I did get stuck into the garden for a few hours), but going on my legs, I probably could have easily - but I don't want to push too far too soon. This week the plan is 4 (maybe 5) slow easy runs, with the plan long term of getting up to 6 runs every week. 

 

It's early days, but it's feeling right so far... let's hope it continues that way

 

Well that invite to join me for the midweek hill and speed workouts is always open. Normally Tuesdays and Thursdays.

[SwissVan]

So that is one speed session per week.   No hill repeats?

 

No hill repeats but some hilly runs were prescribed in the program

At the time i was training for an Ultra distance triathlon with a 42.2 km run, so not quite comrades type training. 

[Hacc]

Only saw this today: 

 

The New Women's Half Marathon World Record: 1:04:51!

There’s a new half marathon world record–and wow is it fast! On Sunday, October 22, 23-year-old Joyciline Jepkosgei of Kenya finished first in the Valencia Half Marathon in Valencia, Spain, one of the IAAF’s Gold Label road races, with a time of 1:04:51. The previous half marathon world record was set earlier this year at the Sportisimo Prague Half Marathon, also by Jepkosgei, with a time one second slower than her race in Spain. Most impressive of all? These were just two of Jepkosgei’s six world record-breaking times of 2017.

https://tinyurl.com/y7zkkrb8

[rudi-h]

I've set myself some slightly loftier goals for Comrades next year and so with that have had to look at doing some proper training and having a bit of a plan...

 

Chatting with a friend of mine at a braai last week, he's got 3 silvers so I always like to hear his thoughts, he's adamant we train at too high a speed. He's advised me to do most of my runs at a very easy 6:15-30 pace and in doing so it will allow me to run a lot more regularly as my legs won't tire nearly as much or pick up the niggles associated from pushing things a bit. And then through more regular running and the odd speed session I will get my general speed up over time. 

 

Just going on the end of last week, I did 10km Thurs, 10km Fri and 15km Sat all at that comfy easier pace and I must say my legs felt absolutely perfect despite the unfamiliarity of three back to back runs. I didn't run yesterday specifically (although I did get stuck into the garden for a few hours), but going on my legs, I probably could have easily - but I don't want to push too far too soon. This week the plan is 4 (maybe 5) slow easy runs, with the plan long term of getting up to 6 runs every week. 

 

It's early days, but it's feeling right so far... let's hope it continues that way

 

how does this change the number of hours that you need to spend in your running shoes...

 

I try to optimize training and I typically only manage 6 hours a week in a manner that is sustainable.  I've always believed that to get the most "fitness" out of the 6 hours that I exercise a week, I need to do intervals, speed sessions, hills etc. to make it count.  I must say that I do agree with the "take it slower" approach to prevent injuries and overtaining, but how many training hours would one have to add to your week to maintain a similar level of fitness when you drop the intensity by so much.

[Pulse]

how does this change the number of hours that you need to spend in your running shoes...

 

I try to optimize training and I typically only manage 6 hours a week in a manner that is sustainable. I've always believed that to get the most "fitness" out of the 6 hours that I exercise a week, I need to do intervals, speed sessions, hills etc. to make it count. I must say that I do agree with the "take it slower" approach to prevent injuries and overtaining, but how many training hours would one have to add to your week to maintain a similar level of fitness when you drop the intensity by so much.

There is no easy answer. I hate if when people just say "it depends", but it does.

What is your aim, or your idea of fitness?

For health and quality of life, what you are doing is probably very close to perfect.

If you want to progress to marathons and ultras, you will have to increase training volume (time) as well. And that increase in volume should be at lower intensities to allow sufficient adaptation without excessive overload.

Just my 2c

Edited October 24, 2017 by Pulse

[Andrew Steer]

how does this change the number of hours that you need to spend in your running shoes...

 

I try to optimize training and I typically only manage 6 hours a week in a manner that is sustainable.  I've always believed that to get the most "fitness" out of the 6 hours that I exercise a week, I need to do intervals, speed sessions, hills etc. to make it count.  I must say that I do agree with the "take it slower" approach to prevent injuries and overtaining, but how many training hours would one have to add to your week to maintain a similar level of fitness when you drop the intensity by so much.

Should mean more hours on the road...

 

Last year I did the whole 'smart miles' thing - only ran 3-4 times a week max, all of them pretty purposeful runs at a decent speed. Short fast(ish) midweek runs with longer more sensible weekend runs. Lots of races, but always making sure of recovering fully before next runs - I often took the whole week off after a marathon etc. It served me well, got no injuries, only sick once, but only clocked up 620km's for Comrades. Of that I would guess about half was in races (Omtom, Om die Dam, Vaal and Johnsons Marathons and then quite a few 21kms)

 

That got me home pretty comfortably in just over 11 hours for Comrades, but I need to get in a lot more mileage if I want to improve my time I reckon. That's where this plan comes in, unlike last year I am going to take it very easy on my legs for most of my runs and in doing so hopefully be able to run more regularly and thus end up with far more mileage.

 

They are two very different philosophies - but my hope is that with this new version I will get in some good distance and then be able to handle more 'smart miles' next year building up to Comrades.

 

Like I said, I've just started - can only try and see where it takes me 

[Paddaman]

The arguments for quality vs quality training are ongoing.

 

The "comrades"mentality of more is better is popular in South Africa.  It got so bad in the 1980's that Tim Noakes even dedicated a few paragraphs in "the Lore of Running" to debunk this theory.

 

On the opposite extreme is the FIRST (Fulman's Institute) training programme which advocates three "quality" sessions a week interspersed with "cross training".

 

The truth lies somewhere in between the two ideas.

 

However, from reading a few books on training the following remains true,

 

if you want to run far, you must have some long runs (the true of thumb is you must train between the race distance to twice the race distance per the week)  The "science" points towards a training band of 50km-85km a week for a marathon.

 

If you want to run fast, you need to train for that too.  One to three quality sessions (ie track, hills, and intervals) a week, where you push yourself at race intensity for SHORT periods.

 

These two activities need to be alternated and rest/recovery days included in weekly cycles.

 

Which in the end brings us back to Noakes/Newtons 15 rules of running:

 

Law 1:  Train frequently, all year-round

Law 2:  Start gradually and train gently

Law 3:  Train first for distance, only later for speed

Law 4:  Don’t set your daily training schedule in stone

Law 5:  Alternate hard and easy training

Law 6:  Achieve as much as possible on a minimum of training

Law 7:  Don’t race when in training or run at race pace for distances above 16 kilometers

Law 8:  Specialize

Law 9:  Incorporate base training and sharpening

Law 10:  Prevent overtraining

Law 11:  Train with a coach

Law 12:  Train the mind

Law 13:  Rest before a big race

Law 14:  Keep a detailed logbook

Law 15:  Understand the holism of training

 

Remember Bruce Fordyce is accredited for never finishing a RAC pre comrades training run.  He always bailed about half way when he know his body was ready for the big day.

[dave303e]

in the 10 weeks leading up to Karkloof 100

4 weeks had no running

longest run was 27km (2nd longest was 18km)

average distance per week when was able to run was 35km

 

Yes I finished, but it did hurt and if I had trained more it would have been a lot easier and a lot faster(turned at 50miles after 10 hours and finished in 29 hours) 

My 2c train as much as you can and let your mind determine the rest...

 

That being said I have done 50+km runs a almost monthly earlier in the year

Edited October 24, 2017 by dave303e

[Barry Stuart]

in the 10 weeks leading up to Karkloof 100

4 weeks had no running

longest run was 27km (2nd longest was 18km)

average distance per week when was able to run was 35km

 

Yes I finished, but it did hurt and if I had trained more it would have been a lot easier and a lot faster(turned at 50miles after 10 hours and finished in 29 hours) 

My 2c train as much as you can and let your mind determine the rest...

 

That being said I have done 50+km runs a almost monthly earlier in the year

 

Geez, Dave, that says a lot about your mental strength. I think my base weeks are around 50km and I looked at that race (was there to pace someone) and felt doubt that I'd ever be able to train for and finish something like that. I can't believe you managed it on such a light schedule. I know it's not ideal but still, respect!

[Chris_]

 

Remember Bruce Fordyce is accredited for never finishing a RAC pre comrades training run.  He always bailed about half way when he know his body was ready for the big day.

 

This is awesome. Imagine being so in tune with your body, and confident (!) about where you are physically.

 

What a man

[Chris_]

Hoka One Trail shoe on sale

 

https://sport.takealot.com/sport-hoka-one-one-mens-speed-instinct-trail-running-shoe-blue-tropica/PLID46874558?utm_source=criteo&utm_medium=remarketing&utm_campaign=Lower+Funnel+Campaign

 

Got some road shoes cheap cheap  

 

good find, thanks!

[Pieter1]

Hey guys. I have a new set of shoes for the marathon. They are the exact same as my training shoes. Can I wear them fresh or should I do a couple of runs with them before hand?