Cycle Lab bullies need to be addressed

[Darrynbp]

Like I said, I agree with you. Everybody is currently going through a very difficult time, overly pc, racial tensions, idiot government ect. We are all affected by it. I too am over apologizing for my existence. It seems like we are only good enough when our taxes are needed... I get it.

 

But that frustration should not boil over into the areas where we go and find solice and escape these realities, our little cycling world.

 

We already have so much to worry about, reckless, drunk drivers, taxis, hijackings, bike theft ( MTBers on the tar ) ect, we really don't need start worrying about each other now too?

 

Hope that makes sense

( MTBers on the tar ) ect

 

Hahahahaha As an MTB ér  that did make me laugh....

 

but i still have to call you a chop for saying it.....hahahahaha

 

[The Ouzo]

When we talk about how the clubs are responsible for this, we seem to think there is some higher authority that has power over all of its minions and dictates how the clubs behave. That's not the case at all. Club "leaders" have very little power to do anything about bad behaviour. What can they really do, threaten to expel the person from the club? That's hardly punishment because there are 40 other clubs to go and join. They cant impose financial penalties or anything like that. On top of that, most of the time any "club" ride will have numerous non-club members who join or get picked up along the way. Is someone supposed to be policing the entire bunch all the time and taking a constant roll call? So the person who acts like an idiot might be riding with CL but could very possibly not be a CL member at all. To try and pin this on some sort of management structure is just misguided. Clubs are just collectives of ordinary people and people are ****. The reason why CL often comes up is probably just because they are one of the bigger clubs and so they have more people and therefore more chance of having **** people.

I disagree.

 

If you have 1 or 50 people riding together wearing your club jersey they represent your club/organisation. Once someone is representing your organisation everything they do is a reflection of the culture within.

You've organised a club ride, then make sure those there are representing you as you would like to be. A club jersey is a uniform, just like any uniform be it school, company or organisation. There should be a certain level of responsibility imposed on there wearer of that uniform.

 

if your club/organisation cannot take any sort of responsibility for making sure your members tow the line then you should not be making money out of club jerseys.

 

A lot of these club rides have support vehicles following, instead of the drive being bored out of their minds have a spotter keep them company. Its not difficult to then pick out the one or 2 rogues on the club ride, give them a talking to and if they still don't behave in future rides make it very clear to them they are not welcome.

 

If every club takes similar responsibility the guys will soon realise they are being chops, either then ride on their own or bugger off back to the golf course where even stricter rules are imposed.

[Cava]

I disagree.

 

If you have 1 or 50 people riding together wearing your club jersey they represent your club/organisation. Once someone is representing your organisation everything they do is a reflection of the culture within.

You've organised a club ride, then make sure those there are representing you as you would like to be. A club jersey is a uniform, just like any uniform be it school, company or organisation. There should be a certain level of responsibility imposed on there wearer of that uniform.

 

if your club/organisation cannot take any sort of responsibility for making sure your members tow the line then you should not be making money out of club jerseys.

 

A lot of these club rides have support vehicles following, instead of the drive being bored out of their minds have a spotter keep them company. Its not difficult to then pick out the one or 2 rogues on the club ride, give them a talking to and if they still don't behave in future rides make it very clear to them they are not welcome.

 

If every club takes similar responsibility the guys will soon realise they are being chops, either then ride on their own or bugger off back to the golf course where even stricter rules are imposed.

 

Not having full control of the behavior of each and every bunch rider (a mixture of club members and non-members) does not equate to not taking any sort of responsibility. And also don't assume that riders misbehaving are not given a talking to or that it's the same person offending repeatedly.

 

I have experienced people being asked to leave a CL group because of undisciplined behavior, but unfortunately by then the damage is done. 

 

It's easy to try and simplify the solution, but in reality you are dealing with adult individuals and it only takes one to have bad judgement for a few seconds to create the perception that the bunch is not disciplined. 

[V12man]

Not having full control of the behavior of each and every bunch rider (a mixture of club members and non-members) does not equate to not taking any sort of responsibility. And also don't assume that riders misbehaving are not given a talking to or that it's the same person offending repeatedly.

 

I have experienced people being asked to leave a CL group because of undisciplined behavior, but unfortunately by then the damage is done. 

 

It's easy to try and simplify the solution, but in reality you are dealing with adult individuals and it only takes one to have bad judgement for a few seconds to create the perception that the bunch is not disciplined. 

I think the facts of the matter are simple:

 

1 - Cyclelab groups are TOO BIG

2 - The club management does not attempt to split them into smaller more manageable groups and manage their attitude to other road users appropriately.

 

And - on a personal note - this leads to people not wanting to ride with them - me included - although historically I used to - but there are other more ably managed groups out there that are much more pleasant to ride with.

[Fat Boab]

I think the facts of the matter are simple:

 

1 - Cyclelab groups are TOO BIG

2 - The club management does not attempt to split them into smaller more manageable groups and manage their attitude to other road users appropriately.

 

And - on a personal note - this leads to people not wanting to ride with them - me included - although historically I used to - but there are other more ably managed groups out there that are much more pleasant to ride with.

 

How do the other clubs better manage their groups?

[Cava]

I think the facts of the matter are simple:

 

1 - Cyclelab groups are TOO BIG

2 - The club management does not attempt to split them into smaller more manageable groups and manage their attitude to other road users appropriately.

 

And - on a personal note - this leads to people not wanting to ride with them - me included - although historically I used to - but there are other more ably managed groups out there that are much more pleasant to ride with.

That's not entirely accurate. The club introduced an additional group tier last weekend in an attempt to reduce the size of one of the larger batches. 

 

 

If a group is too large, they will be split before the ride starts. The challenge is that a group can easily double or triple in size on the way to the cradle and often these are non-members joining up, so there is very little control in terms of which group they join along the way. 

[Heel Drop]

Hmm- there is a lot of arrogance and this is really a minority element that tends to get all the attention in any group. Generalisations are dangerous but should i venture to say it's likely an Elite group of fast and strong guys?

 

 

This thread is honestly unfair as every club has a bunch who is convinced of their own self importance and its sometimes the strong and fast guys who are in that bunch so by implication they are the clubs elites. Not always but often this is the case. They set the cultural example for the bunch and for the club and this filters downwards as to how its done. swe are fast therefore we are better than others and make our own rules, cause fast = good cyclist?

 

Every club has its club strong man who everyone looks up to and obeys on the road. And every club has their rogues who see themselves as having a god given right to the road.

 

FWIW: Have you ever lead a ride or tried to marshall a big bunch. It's a way to screw up your ride. IN between shouting and screaming just to keep a large bunch safe you haven't often got time to teach and be polite. Often there is immediate danger that you need to make people aware of. You can't just steer a bunch around an obstacle or through a changing traffic light or something unanticipated. It's not like that - everyone has a mind of their own.

 

Also my comfort zone with cyclists close to me is much lower than for example my wife's who panics every time someone is near. I trust my skills whereas she is much more edgy. 

 

Thing is maybe someone sees you moving over when a big bunch is passing because like my wife is you are edgy with the bunch being so near, and then taps you or warns you to just stay put. That's normal for me. My wife would go crazy. So do you let a bunch crash and multiple people fall because you are passing a nervous noob or what do you do on at the time? Then someone panics and starts shouting and cursing because they are threatened and scared and with bunch probably chirps them back. then all hell breaks loose. I have seen it many time.

 

Then whatever club it is a bunch of knobs etc.

 

Lets just understand the dynamic above - it aint easy trying to take 5 big bunches through the cradle two weeks prior to the Argus. Chances are you will infringe on or have incidents rathe rthan not. In fact its a miracle that more incidents dont occur.

 

And yes bunches have mob mentality by implication so just chill and work out a way to let them pass without any issues. Remember they are also at risk.

 

Again my 2 cents worth...

that was more like 100 rand

[V12man]

That's not entirely accurate. The club introduced an additional group tier last weekend in an attempt to reduce the size of one of the larger batches. 

 

 

If a group is too large, they will be split before the ride starts. The challenge is that a group can easily double or triple in size on the way to the cradle and often these are non-members joining up, so there is very little control in terms of which group they join along the way. 

They don't need 1 additional group - they need 5 - 10 additional groups

[V12man]

How do the other clubs better manage their groups?

Everyone agrees to a code of conduct - adhere to it or leave....

 

They also make sure they have a good count of who is going on the ride in advance and split them up beforehand to make managable sizes - and lets face it - anything over 20 riders is a BIG group on public roads

[EmJayZA]

That's not entirely accurate. The club introduced an additional group tier last weekend in an attempt to reduce the size of one of the larger batches. 

 

 

If a group is too large, they will be split before the ride starts. The challenge is that a group can easily double or triple in size on the way to the cradle and often these are non-members joining up, so there is very little control in terms of which group they join along the way. 

 

To be fair, the group sizes have come down since late last year. CL have dealt with this properly. In the bigger scheme of things, we need companies like CL to nurture the sport and new riders. I give them way to keep all of us safe. Maybe we should all just be a little more patient. 

 

But intentionally shoving or touching a person, or anyone's bike, while on a ride is inexcusable. I hope they find the people responsible and ban then from group rides. 

 

Stay safe out there guys and look after each other. 

[Pall Catt]

I disagree.

 

If you have 1 or 50 people riding together wearing your club jersey they represent your club/organisation. Once someone is representing your organisation everything they do is a reflection of the culture within.

You've organised a club ride, then make sure those there are representing you as you would like to be. A club jersey is a uniform, just like any uniform be it school, company or organisation. There should be a certain level of responsibility imposed on there wearer of that uniform.

 

if your club/organisation cannot take any sort of responsibility for making sure your members tow the line then you should not be making money out of club jerseys.

 

A lot of these club rides have support vehicles following, instead of the drive being bored out of their minds have a spotter keep them company. Its not difficult to then pick out the one or 2 rogues on the club ride, give them a talking to and if they still don't behave in future rides make it very clear to them they are not welcome.

 

If every club takes similar responsibility the guys will soon realise they are being chops, either then ride on their own or bugger off back to the golf course where even stricter rules are imposed.

 

Well, on the uniform point, if you expel them from your club are you going to somehow force them to give back the shirt? And what of anybody wearing say a Team Sky shirt, are Team Sky responsible for his actions? And cycle lab members that are wearing a different shirt because their cycle lab shirt is in the wash that day? Its not all about the shirt.

 

I also disagree on getting the support vehicle drivers to be policemen of the club. As far as I'm concerned the primary role of the support vehicle is to provide a safe barrier between the cyclists and other traffic from behind. You are now suggesting that he should be pulling up beside the bunch which is already chaos (and which would in all likelihood require him to drive partially in the oncoming lane), and then attempting to extract bad riders for a good talking to. All while there is other traffic behind that is already frustrated with the situation. If my club did that, I'd rather go find another one. I dont even know where to begin on all the things that could go wrong in this scenario. Not to mention that all the support vehicles I've seen aren't exactly being driven by people in senior positions, because quite frankly its a *** job to drive a car at 30km/h for 3 hours.

 

And yes, maybe if Cycle Lab could somehow more effectively discipline their riders (which I think is very difficult) you will end up with those guys just going to clubs or less formal arrangements who don't have a corporate identity and really are just a bunch of guys riding bikes together with nobody "in charge" per se.

 

If there's a poephol that rides a bike and likes to ride a bike in a group, then there's no way of stopping that poephol from being out on the road, in a group, and the fact that he's a poephol is his own fault and has nothing to do with what is printed on his shirt. We as cyclists should rather be self-policing and if someone does something wrong, take it up with that individual rather than go and complain to whoever you perceive him to be representing. Of course that will have its challenges too but in my opinion it's got a much better chance of yielding any meaningful results than having a rant about his club.

[GaryvdM]

<Snip>

 

I also disagree on getting the support vehicle drivers to be policemen of the club. As far as I'm concerned the primary role of the support vehicle is to provide a safe barrier between the cyclists and other traffic from behind.

 

<Snip>

 

I don't think most clubs even view the support vehicle in this way, rather it's just there to give riders who can't finish the ride for mechanical, or other reasons, a lift back to the start.

 

Case in point, CL have only 1 support vehicle for the 10 or so groups.

 

I agree with the rest of what you say.

[The Ouzo]

Well, on the uniform point, if you expel them from your club are you going to somehow force them to give back the shirt? And what of anybody wearing say a Team Sky shirt, are Team Sky responsible for his actions? And cycle lab members that are wearing a different shirt because their cycle lab shirt is in the wash that day? Its not all about the shirt.

 

I also disagree on getting the support vehicle drivers to be policemen of the club. As far as I'm concerned the primary role of the support vehicle is to provide a safe barrier between the cyclists and other traffic from behind. You are now suggesting that he should be pulling up beside the bunch which is already chaos (and which would in all likelihood require him to drive partially in the oncoming lane), and then attempting to extract bad riders for a good talking to. All while there is other traffic behind that is already frustrated with the situation. If my club did that, I'd rather go find another one. I dont even know where to begin on all the things that could go wrong in this scenario. Not to mention that all the support vehicles I've seen aren't exactly being driven by people in senior positions, because quite frankly its a *** job to drive a car at 30km/h for 3 hours.

 

And yes, maybe if Cycle Lab could somehow more effectively discipline their riders (which I think is very difficult) you will end up with those guys just going to clubs or less formal arrangements who don't have a corporate identity and really are just a bunch of guys riding bikes together with nobody "in charge" per se.

 

If there's a poephol that rides a bike and likes to ride a bike in a group, then there's no way of stopping that poephol from being out on the road, in a group, and the fact that he's a poephol is his own fault and has nothing to do with what is printed on his shirt. We as cyclists should rather be self-policing and if someone does something wrong, take it up with that individual rather than go and complain to whoever you perceive him to be representing. Of course that will have its challenges too but in my opinion it's got a much better chance of yielding any meaningful results than having a rant about his club.

support vehicle does not need to move up to the rider, dash cams these days are very cheap and very good quality, you can identify the rider after that fact.

 

In an ideal world everyone would behave themselves, but we know we don't live in an ideal world. That is why you have policeman.

I'm feeling to much of a "adults must sort themselves out the clubs our powerless" vibe coming from your posts. Smacks of a "someone elses problem" attitude.

I wish everyone would behave themselves, I wish clubs didn't have to be policeman, but the truth of the matter is they do, and clubs should take ownership of their little contribution to cycling and get their riders in order.

[Patchelicious]

support vehicle does not need to move up to the rider, dash cams these days are very cheap and very good quality, you can identify the rider after that fact.

 

In an ideal world everyone would behave themselves, but we know we don't live in an ideal world. That is why you have policeman.

I'm feeling to much of a "adults must sort themselves out the clubs our powerless" vibe coming from your posts. Smacks of a "someone elses problem" attitude.

I wish everyone would behave themselves, I wish clubs didn't have to be policeman, but the truth of the matter is they do, and clubs should take ownership of their little contribution to cycling and get their riders in order.

Its actually the opposite. Its taking responsibility for ourselves and our fellow riders, instead of making it somebody else's problem.

 

Thing is BOTH need to happen, this isn't a this or that type thing, this is a this AND that thing.

[ilubinsky]

I have noticed that often cyclists in the cradle will try to push their way into passing bunches rather than joining from the back. Others will just increase their speed a bit and sit on the inside, not trying to join the bunch but also not allowing the bunch to return to riding two abreast in the yellow lane.

 

Obviously it's a public road and you are entitled to change or maintain your pace at any given time, but maybe appreciate that the request would have been from a safety perspective and not to bully you.  

Hi Cava if it was a request I would not have mind. It was not it was push me straight off the road on two occasions and then the attitude came.

[Patchelicious]

Hi Cava if it was a request I would not have mind. It was not it was push me straight off the road on two occasions and then the attitude came.

How did they push you? Was it with their hands or moving across you etc?

 

Where about was this? If you have a Strava link, send it to me, I am riding with some of their marshals on the weekend and will have a word.