Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Thats exactly why i'm saying pedal assist is cool... Its when the guys get clever and have the little 100w button *edit battery tech moves so fast in 6 months there will be bikes with 3 hours and 300watts on board... is all im saying. Trail centers and trails will have to adapt and make some rules before its out of handthe speed will be dictated by the motor, not the battery. Battery dictates how long the charge will be held for, and how long they'll be able to go. Not how fast they'll be able to go. Next...
the nerd Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 the speed will be dictated by the motor, not the battery. Battery dictates how long the charge will be held for, and how long they'll be able to go. Not how fast they'll be able to go. Next... Yes and no. My answer was not as simple as that. Battery can deliver x ah making it able to deliver higher current for longer periods.. motor tech is already here its the weight of the batteries thats coming still. PEDAL ASSIST IS FINE = Most mnf are using this technology... BUT... Button and throttle controlled electric bikes are already out there. A quick google search you will find threads on how to mod your pedal assist bike for a twist throttle etc...
the nerd Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 And as usual, bans on certain things are not aimed at the majority... It only takes one a$$hole to ruin things for everyone..
Skinnyone Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Lets not forget that these pedal assist bikes are made in countries where laws are in place and enforced, so to have an e-bike doing 50km/h on a road/trail in Europe/USA is going to raise some eyebrows and there will be penalties to both the rider and the manufacturer... These speed limits are in place for a reason - any higher and the bike THEN falls into the motorized category...I remember the Specialized Turbo was outlawed in Europe because of its higher 32km/h speed...no one was allowed to sell it period...having ridden a Turbo I can tell you that even to get that bike up to 32km/h and maintain it - you are going to be breathing hard! Because even with pedal assist you are pushing around at least 15kg of bike so take that into account... Yes battery technology has come forward in leaps and bounds which has allowed slimmer cell phones, longer ranges on e-bikes etc but if the bike is built to a certain spec then its for the above reasons, and like it's been pointed out, there will ALWAYS be the individuals who will hack the system and make a pedal assist into a throttle bike, but he may do it on one or two bikes but not for the masses... At the end of the day with major manufacturers getting on board with all these pedal assist bikes they are here to stay - accept them and move on...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Yes and no. My answer was not as simple as that. Battery can deliver x ah making it able to deliver higher current for longer periods.. motor tech is already here its the weight of the batteries thats coming still. PEDAL ASSIST IS FINE = Most mnf are using this technology... BUT... Button and throttle controlled electric bikes are already out there. A quick google search you will find threads on how to mod your pedal assist bike for a twist throttle etc... Agreed. As for the battery tech, as long as you keep the motor a reasonable size, all the improvement in battery tech will do is make the bike go for longer at that speed. Not faster. Even if they made the motor double that which it currently is - you wouldn't be able to do 32kph up a trail or segment of jeep track unless you're pushing BLOODY hard. Here's an indication as to the different classes. Spaz is 32kph as it's subject to US legislation. https://electricbikereview.com/guides/electric-bike-classes/ Agreed that Class 1 should be the only one allowed on the trail, and is the one that is being developed mostly on the MTB scene. In some parts of Europe Class 2 (push button) requires a license. Class 3 is Pedelec and is essentially treated as an electric motorbike in Europe.
Shebeen Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I have no problem with mountain E-Bikes on trails. it is nothing like a motorbike(if you haven't ridden an E-Bike yet, maybe try it first before putting out polarising views). What I do have a problem with is w@nkers. Whether they are pedalling a normal crank or an assisted one, they just ruin it for everyone else. It remains to be seen if the w@nker ratio in e-bikes is at all higher than the general population.
Skinnyone Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 The one thing about pedal assist/ E-bikes locally is going to be the price, it will limit the number of units sold...you can only use it to ride with your mates, not at a race, so one would have to have a standard bike first and THEN only look at the pedal assist bike. If I look at the pricing of the Levo for example, I doubt many people will have a spare R60k+ for a "spare" "heavier" bike that they can't compete with...
energizer2k Posted June 28, 2016 Author Posted June 28, 2016 So peddle assist or motorised bikes or whatever, where are the clubs or more specifically the land owners of private tracks supposed to draw the line...My concern is safety focused. The need for these type of bikes is there and are justifiable, i have no reservations regarding their use for various people in different circumstances. What I am concerned about is that most trails have been built with the idea that the majority of people are peddling with their legs (pros may exceed some of these limits but they usually have pro technical skills to back that up), so there is a gap in the intended use of the trails and the relative speed expected on climbs, switchbacks and blind corners.It's possible that there will be no impact whatsoever and it all comes down to the individual rider at the end of the day but I do think the Tygerberg club itself should make a ruling in this regards, i.e adjust their rules. This way everyone can be on the same page.
KarlvN Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I have no opinion on whether they can or can't... But in saying that (as a big-boned gent... ), I do believe that the OP was probably peeved because the e-bike in question passed him at a rate of knots when he was most likely going up Dorstberg or the Contermans Mast climb... Having gone up there numerous times, I sure would love to have a bit of assistance, whether battery or petrol powered myself...
KarlvN Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I have no problem with mountain E-Bikes on trails. it is nothing like a motorbike(if you haven't ridden an E-Bike yet, maybe try it first before putting out polarising views). What I do have a problem with is w@nkers. Whether they are pedalling a normal crank or an assisted one, they just ruin it for everyone else. It remains to be seen if the w@nker ratio in e-bikes is at all higher than the general population. Uhm....I would also have a problem with people doing "that" while riding? Rather stay home, then...it sure would ruin my day to witness "that".
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 So peddle assist or motorised bikes or whatever, where are the clubs or more specifically the land owners of private tracks supposed to draw the line... My concern is safety focused. The need for these type of bikes is there and are justifiable, i have no reservations regarding their use for various people in different circumstances. What I am concerned about is that most trails have been built with the idea that the majority of people are peddling with their legs (pros may exceed some of these limits but they usually have pro technical skills to back that up), so there is a gap in the intended use of the trails and the relative speed expected on climbs, switchbacks and blind corners. It's possible that there will be no impact whatsoever and it all comes down to the individual rider at the end of the day but I do think the Tygerberg club itself should make a ruling in this regards, i.e adjust their rules. This way everyone can be on the same page.There IS no safety factor. People will still have to pedal with their legs, and will remain limited by their skills. If you can't take a switchback at 10kph, you won't be able to take it at 15kph. I'm assuming the same person who knows he can't take it at 10kph will be holding his brakes and not pedalling (thereby not utilising the motor) just as much on the e-bike as he would on a normal bike, and probably a little bit more. Only time that wouldn't come into play is maybe between switchbacks where you're trying to pick up speed again. And then, again, you won't magically be able to do drops or jumps. Uphill - same thing. In order to ride up singletrack fast, you need to have the skills. An electric motor doesn't all of a sudden grant you those skills. Safety when passing on the up - maybe, but then if the person passing you is a dick, he'll be a dick regardless of what bike he's on. If he's faster than you on an MTB he'll still be a dick and blast past you at the least opportune moment. Remember, 250w on a big climb is relatively little. For me, 250w on a climb like Jonkers will only be able to get me to about 7 or 8 kph. Pedal assist will get me to 14 or so, at the same effort. If I dial down the effort (which I will, on an e-mtb, probably, cos I want to get to the top fresher) then I can do 10kph comfortably. Not 32kph. To do that I'd need a total power output of about 700w or so. So - are you envisaging a whole bunch of moto-aided idiots opening the throttle on Tygerberg? If so, then you don't have anything to worry about. Or - are you just worried that someone will be faster than you on the way up? If they want to pass you they'll still have to wait for you to move over, especially on singletrack climbs. They won't come barreling into you either, their skill level (and need to pedal) will restrict that. Plus they will come off if they do that, and they can do that without a motor as well. So essentially (for pedal assist bikes) - what is the ACTUAL problem? Again - a cogent (that means well thought out and constructed) argument, please.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Oh - as for the "pedalling with their legs" thing being a limiting factor on speed. Martin Ashton, who is currently using an ENTIRELY button-based e-mtb because he can't pedal at all, is STILL limited by his skillset when it comes to his speed. And that's on a full DH rig. So someone who has a large amount of power at his command, and has extensive experience and skill on an MTB & road bike, is limited and does not use the motor to its full capability. If he doesn't go full taps on the trails, why would someone who has not 1% of his skill all of a sudden be able to?
Johan A Marais Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 You all sound like the British with motivations for in or out - I call E-Xit...
Thor Buttox Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 1) I can't afford one. 2) I like my KOM's. 3) My Disco HR points would be even harder to get. Versus A) More people having fun out in the open as families. B) Mr Mayhew not clogging up the uphills. As someone who sees the results of lots of people especially kids with sedentary lives, if this does help in some way to get people out and about I'd be all for it. (Just don't use then for EVIL! see point 2 above)
Thor Buttox Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Except there is no throttle to jam as its an ebike.Auditors have NO imagination! ????
Eddy Gordo Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Some valid points here: Great explanation and I fully agree, even though I could make use of some pedal assist.However its not like you see mountain bikers taking to dirt motorbike trails for a jump fest.I agree it should be banned.
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