Climbing like Contador

[Jurgens Smit]

Most of my regular training partners are larger guys that prefer flat and sprinty efforts. Something I seriously dislike. So when I get the chance and we head to suikerbos is to set a decent tempo up the climbs then get out of the saddle and drop them hard.

 

What I noticed, sometimes I'll go at a higher cadence (+-90-95rpm) where if I'm more tired I'll select a heavier gear to go at a steadier pace (+- 75-80 rpm) 

 

I was watching Contador climb today and he just makes it seem so effortless, but he hasn't responded to my tweet yet

 

What type of intervals are there to actually train climbing out the saddle, and what is better - heavy gear/lower cadence or lighter gear/high cadence. 

 

Also, at what gradient is it more effective to stay seated vs standing?

 

And please don't say just ride out of the saddle more

[Jurgens Smit]

Something I've done before is over/under intervals where I lift the front wheel up to around 10% incline.

 

The under(95% FTP) intervals are seated while the over(105% FTP) intervals are out of saddle.

[King_Crispy]

Standing wastes a lot of energy. Learn to climb seated and perfect your pull/push sequence with your legs

[urbanroyal]

Take the saddle off... ...then go up some hills. ..you'll be motivated to stand. ...????????????

[Duane_Bosch]

I saw a vid once where he explained that he spends TWENTY MINUTES out of the saddle. That's not normal. I was never a Contador fan but his romantic attacks were great to watch. A modern day Pantani.

 

* Edit. Sorry for the hijack.

[Frosty]

Standing wastes a lot of energy. Learn to climb seated and perfect your pull/push sequence with your legs

Not according to the guys at GCN... their lab test shows the sitting only, vs in/out the saddle are pretty much the same.

[Frosty]

[Bonus]

Take the saddle off... ...then go up some hills. ..you'll be motivated to stand. ...

 

Did that from the far side of Northern Farm back to the carpark one, with my broken saddle in my back pocket!

 

Never sitting down is harder than you might think.

[Jurgens Smit]

Standing wastes a lot of energy. Learn to climb seated and perfect your pull/push sequence with your legs

 

It's only inefficient if you don't train it. That's the point of the question, how to properly train the related energy system.

[Bonus]

Bertie wouldn't do it if he knew he was a percentage faster "sitting down", whereas Jan Ullrich very rarely ever got out the saddle.

 

Depends on the individual.

[Butterbean]

Don't forget about the aero advantage of sitting. Apparently that's what's driven Chris froome to train his style of staying seated, even during attacks.

 

These guys climb at ridiculous speeds tho, so I guess it's a real thing for them.

 

I stand to give my legs a rest when I'm spinning, and when the gradient is ridiculous.

[SwissVan]

It's only inefficient if you don't train it. That's the point of the question, how to properly train the related energy system.

Related energy system....?

 

Don't over complicate things, just practise what you want do.

 

But HOW you scream.... well I've never seen a training program specifically for standing but I would start off by following basic training principals.

 

Gradually get your muscles used to standing and gradually increase the time and intensity, break the standing sessions into repitions spaced with sufficient recovery, basic training principals.....

[rudi-h]

There's no golden bullet...

 

Standing VS seated:

For max power you need to be out of the saddle.  The only person I know of to successfully attack on a climb from a seated position was Fabian Cancellara, most notably on the Muur van Geraardsbergen 2010 de Ronde when he dropped Boonen.  The rest of even the best pro's get out of the saddle, so I think its safe to say that attacking seated is uncommon.

 

However, after the initial attack nobody stays out of the saddle for too long.  Contador and Valverde are arguably the guys that like to get out of the saddle the most and their results speak volumes for the merits of this tactic, but guys like Froome, Dumoulin etc. only get out of the saddle if they really need to.

 

So if you're trying to ride a PB, then perhaps staying seated and doing an uphill TT is the best, however if you want to drop your mates with a quick acceleration you should get out.  I'm not the greatest of climbers, but I have ridden some of the worlds' hardest and longest climbs (albiet at snails pace).  I get out of the saddle once in a while on long climbs for some variation and making other muscles work and it also helps mentally for me to change rhythm.

 

Fast vs slow cadence

Take the Armstrong vs Ulrich rivalry.  Ulrich doesn't even know what it means to ride at a cadence higher than 80 and he was arguably the best / 2nd best of a generation.  Andrew Coggan (the famous coach and author of "training and racing with a power meter") also does not advocate a specific cadence.  he often refers to "self selected cadence" when doing maximal or FTP type intervals, however it seems that somewhere between 80 and 95 is the generic sweet spot.  For "out of the saddle", my cadence personally drops to 70 something.

 

What seems to be important is that you at least train specific intervals at higher than comfortable cadence, because higher cadence means more Watts for the same pedal force, but as for your maximal effort cadence it seems to depend on your muscle type, muscle strength and various other physiological factors.

[Long Wheel Base]

Did that from the far side of Northern Farm back to the carpark one, with my broken saddle in my back pocket!

 

Never sitting down is harder than you might think.

Same here. Saddle mount bolt on the seat post sheared on a commute home once. Luckily I am one of the guys who gets out the saddle first on a climb and prefer standing anyway. So I thought this won't be too bad. On the climbs it was no problem but where I took strain was the flats and descents.

[Bonus]

Same here. Saddle mount bolt on the seat post sheared on a commute home once. Luckily I am one of the guys who gets out the saddle first on a climb and prefer standing anyway. So I thought this won't be too bad. On the climbs it was no problem but where I took strain was the flats and descents.

 

Exactly. Also I noticed how often I lean the inside of my leg against the side of the saddle when I'm rolling on the flat or downhill. Without it there it is decidedly odd.

[Pure Savage]

Yeah, if there was a one size fits all approach all the pro's would be riding the same most efficient style. 

 

But if you watch the GCN series with Berto, he does 40 to 50 minute standing sessions to condition his body for his standing attacks. Remember Matt being rather blown away by this. 

 

I guess if thats what Berto does to get better at climbing out the pedals it must have some merit.