Hunting - yes or no?

[Chris_]

In ALL of the religion/vegan/opinion threads we see posters going wild, posting scientific studies, posting personal experiences etc etc but not in one have I actually seen anyone change their stance on a subject.

 

The Bikehub, where the points dont matter and where everyone is always right! Well IMHO

 

Something I would like to see on Bikehub is a poll where you can vote or click when you have changed your opinion on something.

 

Often on the hub (and the world right now) I feel people don’t actually read a post to understand it, they read it simply to answer.

 

Changing your ways makes it quite a black and white maneuver, I always think the world and our thoughts are a lot more grey. So I see the hub as not a way to change your ways, but rather educate yourself. It’s a great day when you can read something that makes you step back for just a second and say ‘I didn’t think of it like that’, whether it changes a small part of you - happy days, if not at least it gave your mental chewing gun for a period. Life’s all about education. 

 

The one thing I’ve learnt on the hub, sounds stupid when I say it out loud now – don’t text/phone/play whatever on your phone and drive. But it took me reading it, realizing it, and making a change. Awareness. I now think about it every time I get in my car (and every time another idiot on the road drives like a knob). 

 

Side story - Some small Nissan bakkie was behind me this morning, I could see him typing on his phone, he crossed over Jan Smuts as I turned the opposite direction, if the merc coming down the road didn’t have really good ABS there would have 100% been a collision because this idiot just drove into the lane and straight into oncoming traffic because he wasn’t paying attention. I see it so frequently.

[Odinson]

Some food for thought on the devastating effect that large-scale deforestation in Borneo and Sumatra has had on wild orangutan populations. The driver of this deforestation? Palm oil.

 

https://youtu.be/JdpspllWI2o

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/15/dramatic-decline-in-borneos-orangutan-population-as-150000-lost-in-16-years

 

We're driving orangutans to extinction for something as stupid as palm oil. 

 

So, what's the take-away? Cut-out or minimize as far as possible your intake of palm oil. It's easy enough to do, as it's mostly found in highly and ultra processed foods. 

 

Thought I'd drop this in here too. 

 

Too all the ardent conservationists and their supporters, let's work together and stop supporting an industry that is driving orangutans to the edge of extinction. Cut-out or minimize as far as possible your intake of palm oil. It's easy enough to do, as it's mostly found in highly and ultra processed foods. 

[forkie]

Thought I'd drop this in here too. 

 

Too all the ardent conservationists and their supporters, let's work together and stop supporting an industry that is driving orangutans to the edge of extinction. Cut-out or minimize as far as possible your intake of palm oil. It's easy enough to do, as it's mostly found in highly and ultra processed foods. 

isn't palm oil a plant based food?  

[Odinson]

isn't palm oil a plant based food?  

 

Yes, it is, but the plant in itself is not the issue. The concern is that the demand for plant is a major driver of deforestation in many areas in Asia, South America and even parts of Africa. That being said, it still lags behind deforestation caused by animal agriculture. 

 

Here is an excerpt from a 2018 report by the IUCN on palm oil and sustainability: 

 

 

Oil palm impacts on biodiversity

Chapter 2 reviews the past impacts of oil palm development on biodiversity. Oil palm has been locally responsible for high deforestation rates. As much as 50% of all deforestation on the island of Borneo between 2005 and 2015 was driven by oil palm development. The current review indicated that in both Central America and West Africa between 1972 and 2015, oil palm made up 2–3% of forest loss. Where oil palm replaces tropical forest, the negative impact on biodiversity is significant. Conversion for oil palm has played a major role in the decline in species such as orangutans. However, some species, such as various pigs and snakes can, benefit from the presence of oil palm. Because oil palm is a long-lived crop, in mixed landscapes of oil palm and forests, older oil palm plantings can play some role in maintaining ecological connectivity between populations of forest species. This chapter briefly reviews other impacts of oil palm development, including emission of greenhouse gases, the association with land burning and regional haze, local climate change, water quality issues, and pest spill-over effects. We conclude that, as one of the larger drivers of deforestation (behind cattle ranging, and local and subsistence agriculture), oil palm development has significant negative impacts on global biodiversity. Given the growing global demand for vegetable oils, and the fact that oil palm produces much more oil per area unit than other oil crops, a shift from palm oil to other oil crops, does not guarantee a net positive outcome for biodiversity

 

https://portals.iucn.org/library/sites/library/files/documents/2018-027-En.pdf

 

In countries such as SA, it is easy to reduce your palm oil consumption, by simply reducing your intake of heavily processed foods. In Asian countries, it's a different story, as palm oil is largely used for cooking. 

[DJR]

........In countries such as SA, it is easy to reduce your palm oil consumption, by simply reducing your intake of heavily processed foods. In Asian countries, it's a different story, as palm oil is largely used for cooking. 

On this one I agree 100%. Even if only for our own health, we should reduce the processed food we consume to the absolute minimum. Fresh, unprocessed and as natural as possible will always be better.

[Mousea]

Hunting

Yes

No

[PhilipV]

In countries such as SA, it is easy to reduce your palm oil consumption, by simply reducing your intake of heavily processed foods. In Asian countries, it's a different story, as palm oil is largely used for cooking.

 

Basically everything that is fried uses palm oils. Unless you make it at home using olive or fish oil.

Fish oil isn't better either.

[forkie]

sunflower oil

canola oil

rape seed oil

sesame oil

butter

lard

non stick pan - no oil

[Odinson]

Basically everything that is fried uses palm oils. Unless you make it at home using olive or fish oil.

Fish oil isn't better either.

 

I would say that most commercially produced fried items, is made using palm oil. It's also in baked goods, jelly sweets, cheap chocolate, cosmetics, toiletries. Basically ******* anything produced in a large scale food factory. 

 

However, I don't think palm oil is used as a household cooking oil in SA. I think most folks are using sunflower or canola oil for frying, with higher income families using olive (or at least some kind of olive oil blended with sunflower or something else). 

[Odinson]

sunflower oil

canola oil

rape seed oil

sesame oil

butter

lard

non stick pan - no oil

 

Try some veggie broth as a replacement for oil.  Especially when making pastas, baking veggies in the oven and so on. Tastes great and drops some empty calories from the meal. 

[Vetplant]

 To all with interests in the industry, gladly participate in this process when it is opened up for public participation, you might actually effect some much needed change.

 

https://twitter.com/Derek_Hanekom/status/1062647415113740288

 

 

[leeubok]

Howsit guys. Haven't been online much the last few weeks. Good to see this thread is still alive and well. Ok maybe not well, but still alive!

 

I attended the KZN Wildlife Conservation Symposium last week. Coincidentally there was a lot of talk about hunting and conservation. Apparently all the talks will be loaded onto youtube, so I'll post the links here as soon as they're available. These are from experts in the field, so make up your own mind if you want to believe them or some keyboard warrior expert on bikehub. Oh and by the way, it wasn't even up for discussion whether hunting is beneficial to conservation. It was however pointed out that the conservation benefit is often incidental, which is something I also tried to highlight on this thread as well. 

 

As for pushing my "agenda" here, and replying to some name calling posts from Odinson, I don't see the point. I've had my say. With a bit of effort I can provide 100's of peer reviewed articles and reports to back my claims, but it still won't change the minds of some. 

[leeubok]

FYI, just saw this link posted on another forum:

 

https://m.news24.com/Analysis/counting-the-contribution-of-hunting-to-south-africas-economy-20181117?fbclid=IwAR2r0S2MtIPmphFBHrOOY47OE1twVvqw%20rs3QyG9YRpgsuitj2qjxTCWebUs

[FrankG]

These are from experts in the field, so make up your own mind if you want to believe them or some keyboard warrior expert on bikehub.

 

If you don't want the opinion of 'keyboard warrior experts', perhaps next time don't start a thread asking for people's opinions?

[leeubok]

If you don't want the opinion of 'keyboard warrior experts', perhaps next time don't start a thread asking for people's opinions?

Seems you aspire to be like your avatar? Haha just joking. 

 

Keyboard warriors - including myself. None of you know me, so why should anyone take my word for it above someone like Odin's? That's why I'm going to post the link to some of those talks. So people interested can put a name and a face to whatever is said and make up their own mind

[FrankG]

Seems you aspire to be like your avatar? Haha just joking. 

 

That doesn't even make sense.