Racers fail doping tests for EWS

[stefmeister]

It's a hell of alot easier to do an Enduro stage fast if you are fresh vs when you are bugerred though!

 

Have seen a few videos where DH guys cannot keep up with XC guys on the descents purely because they are buggered from climbing while the XC guy is not.

 

Tiredness = mistakes, poor line choice, and overall slower descents.

 

So yeah PEDs are not gonna help me win an EWS race no matter how fit I get, but it will help and EWS pro ride a better race because he will have more endurance than if he had not been on PEDs.

Agreed. Gravity discipline is still very physical. What I'm saying is that people are probably more lenient towards the discipline as skills and talent is still the top deciding factor.

 

That said, I think one of the reasons Martin Maes won DH WC this year is due to his "enduro" fitness over his DH peers.

[Grease_Monkey]

Agreed. Gravity discipline is still very physical. What I'm saying is that people are probably more lenient towards the discipline as skills and talent is still the top deciding factor.

 

That said, I think one of the reasons Martin Maes won DH WC this year is due to his "enduro" fitness over his DH peers.

Yeah that's true, I do think the general feeling amongst people is that skills win you an enduro race so PEDs are not as frowned upon as in road racing (although I think it should be).

[Duane_Bosch]

A failed drug test is a failed drug test. If being fit and taking supplements didn't help they would be doing dirt jumps, chowing burgers and swilling beer all day long. Same thing for PED's. 

 

Who came second to Rude at the PMB World Champs?

 

I say

 

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!

[Barend de Arend]

Agreed. Gravity discipline is still very physical. What I'm saying is that people are probably more lenient towards the discipline as skills and talent is still the top deciding factor.

 

 

How do you know?

 

How do you know that talent isn't reflexes boosted by a beta blocker?  First positive doping test during the 2008 olympics was for the sport of shooting.

 

How do you know you the skills don't come from faster recovery to ride more?  And from faster pedalling to do more downhill runs in a day?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

How do you know?

 

How do you know that talent isn't reflexes boosted by a beta blocker?  First positive doping test during the 2008 olympics was for the sport of shooting.

 

How do you know you the skills don't come from faster recovery to ride more?  And from faster pedalling to do more downhill runs in a day?

Skills don't come from doping, but the ability to carry on at your peak and therefore have the capacity to utilise those skills does. Therefore fitness and the ability to go harder for longer (and any help you can get from other sources) is definitely a contributing factor to success. 

 

IE: If you're the same skill level as someone, but are 5% fitter, you'll be faster in the technical areas because you'll have the extra fitness needed to allow full function for just that little bit longer. 

[Capricorn]

How do you know?

 

How do you know that talent isn't reflexes boosted by a beta blocker?  First positive doping test during the 2008 olympics was for the sport of shooting.

 

How do you know you the skills don't come from faster recovery to ride more?  And from faster pedalling to do more downhill runs in a day?

if im not misunderstanding you, it's not so much skill that's preserved, but cognitive function: boxers have a saying: kill the body and the head will die.

So it is on the bike: even the most skilled will go lame in the brain when on the wrong side of blood oxygen and glucose levels necessary for normal cognitive function. you can't judge distances, sight gets blurry, tactical thinking goes out the window. Your brain just bonks. Will it affect application of skill? definitely.

It is skill? No, not directly.

But I think i get your point. feel free to point out if i brainbonked though 

[Headshot]

Skills don't come from doping, but the ability to carry on at your peak and therefore have the capacity to utilise those skills does. Therefore fitness and the ability to go harder for longer (and any help you can get from other sources) is definitely a contributing factor to success. 

 

IE: If you're the same skill level as someone, but are 5% fitter, you'll be faster in the technical areas because you'll have the extra fitness needed to allow full function for just that little bit longer. 

Yes, precisely. I'd like to see some expert comment on whether these specific "unknowingly ingested performance enhancers" are the kind that work best for the super high energy downhill sprinting that enduro is known for. If they are, then the chances that they just happened to be in a supplement and were taken by accident sounds a little more like BS... 

[Duane_Bosch]

Yes, precisely. I'd like to see some expert comment on whether these specific "unknowingly ingested performance enhancers" are the kind that work best for the super high energy downhill sprinting that enduro is known for. If they are, then the chances that they just happened to be in a supplement and were taken by accident sounds a little more like BS... 

Accidental ingestion is not a defense. Otherwise they'd all use it. I accidentally tripped and landed on a syringe which was attached to a pint of my own blood. On the first & second rest days of the tour.

 

These guys are professional athletes.

 

Also. One of the drugs they tested positive for is Oxilofrine. It's known to increase adrenaline production and alertness. So yes. It's a GREAT PED for Enduro riders.

 

Also. They tested positive for TWO PED's. Not one. TWO

 

Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell (Sprinters) were both banned for its use.

 

I'm so happy this has happened. Now all enduro okes can get off their FKING high horse about doping in road cycling.

 

Source

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jul/15/tyson-gay-asafa-powell-oxilofrine

 

If you believe in the accidental ingestion defense I have bad news about the Tooth Fairy and Santa.....

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Accidental ingestion is not a defense. Otherwise they'd all use it. I accidentally tripped and landed on a syringe which was attached to a pint of my own blood. On the first & second rest days of the tour.

 

These guys are professional athletes.

 

Also. One of the drugs they tested positive for is Oxilofrine. It's known to increase adrenaline production and alertness. So yes. It's a GREAT PED for Enduro riders.

 

Also. They tested positive for TWO PED's. Not one. TWO

 

Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell (Sprinters) were both banned for its use.

 

I'm so happy this has happened. Now all enduro okes can get off their FKING high horse about doping in road cycling.

 

Source

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jul/15/tyson-gay-asafa-powell-oxilofrine

 

If you believe in the accidental ingestion defense I have bad news about the Tooth Fairy and Santa.....

I agree, to a degree. If their supplement (the ones provided by RynoPower) had these things in them, then AI is a solid defence as it is a supplement provided by an external party (sponsor) which they (the athletes) ingest. If it's in there, and not listed / included on the ingredients list, then IMO they have a leg to stand on. 

 

If someone said "here, drink this, it's lekker" and they got it from that, less so. If they themselves added it to their drinks / spiked / smoked it, then no defence at all. 

 

So at the end of the day, IMO, it's nuanced.

[PhilipV]

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/higenamine-and-oxilofrine-the-banned-substances-that-jared-graves-and-richie-rude-tested-positive-for.html?fbclid=IwAR1rKZhxyagrrcMzDSrWRo8q5YwHY8Vgu-aDGaRJ5WgpMTckbrQbGGR3XnY

 

Good article detailing the substances and advantages of use.

[Duane_Bosch]

I agree, to a degree. If their supplement (the ones provided by RynoPower) had these things in them, then AI is a solid defence as it is a supplement provided by an external party (sponsor) which they (the athletes) ingest. If it's in there, and not listed / included on the ingredients list, then IMO they have a leg to stand on. 

 

If someone said "here, drink this, it's lekker" and they got it from that, less so. If they themselves added it to their drinks / spiked / smoked it, then no defence at all. 

 

So at the end of the day, IMO, it's nuanced.

Howcome no one else has tested positive then? Most of the pro's that ride Supercross in the states use Rynopower products. Those guys are tested all the time. And so do a lot of other MTB pro's. Gwin probably gets tested every other week.

 

The drug they tested positive for is an amphetamine used to treat hypertension. You wouldn't generally find that in a protein shake

 

A positive drug test is binary. There is no nuance.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Howcome no one else has tested positive then? Most of the pro's that ride Supercross in the states use Rynopower products. Those guys are tested all the time. And so do a lot of other MTB pro's. Gwin probably gets tested every other week.

 

The drug they tested positive for is an amphetamine used to treat hypertension. You wouldn't generally find that in a protein shake

 

A positive drug test is binary. There is no nuance.

Bold bit, absolutely. But the reasons they tested positive should be heard in determining the sentence imposed. That's the nuance I'm referring to. One is not simply convicted of murder if you shoot the person who broke into your housue and brandished a weapon at you... You killed them, yes. But the mitigating circumstances need to be considered. 

 

As for the other bit - no idea whatsoever. That's what's making me question their (athlete) side of it, but until I know most / all of the info, I won't pass judgement. I'll just say "doping's bad, mmmmkay"

[Jewbacca]

Bold bit, absolutely. But the reasons they tested positive should be heard in determining the sentence imposed. That's the nuance I'm referring to. One is not simply convicted of murder if you shoot the person who broke into your housue and brandished a weapon at you... You killed them, yes. But the mitigating circumstances need to be considered. 

 

As for the other bit - no idea whatsoever. That's what's making me question their (athlete) side of it, but until I know most / all of the info, I won't pass judgement. I'll just say "doping's bad, mmmmkay"

I suppose what Duane is angling at is that a LOT of guys are jumping to their defense, using 'accidental ingestion' and 'they are pro but not as pro as' or whatever, where as some of the same people scream BURN HIM if there is even a hint of foul play in the Pro Peleton.

 

The attitude seems skewed. I mean, Jared Graves and Richie Rude are rad... They do rad stuff! Richie even wears Tie Dyed shirts! He isn't some crazy looking pro athlete with a weird riding style who would do anything to be the best.......... (jokes, that's exactly what he is)

[MrJacques]

There's a photo of Richie Rude with a bunch of supplements, one of which is a fat burner and contains one of the banned substances. So it looks like he was using it last year. Maybe he stopped once it was put on the banned substance list sometime in 2017 and some trace amounts were still in him, which showed up on the test.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I suppose what Duane is angling at is that a LOT of guys are jumping to their defense, using 'accidental ingestion' and 'they are pro but not as pro as' or whatever, where as some of the same people scream BURN HIM if there is even a hint of foul play in the Pro Peleton.

 

The attitude seems skewed. I mean, Jared Graves and Richie Rude are rad... They do rad stuff! Richie even wears Tie Dyed shirts! He isn't some crazy looking pro athlete with a weird riding style who would do anything to be the best.......... (jokes, that's exactly what he is)

yeah, 100% agreed there. The dichotomy is surprising, but not entirely so. 

[MrJacques]

Higenamine is found in varying quantities in the following plant sources:

 

Wolf’s bane or aconite root (Aconitum carmichaelii)

Seeds of the sacred lotus (Nelumbo nucifera)

Fruit of heavenly or sacred bamboo (Nandina domestica)

Wild ginger (Asarum heterotropoides)

Lamarck’s bedstraw (Galium divaricatum)

Sugar apple (Annona squamosa)

Willow-leafed magnolia (Magnolia salicifolia)

Argemone mexicana

Coptis japonica

Radix Aconiti Lateralis Preparata

 

However, caution should be used when selecting a source of higenamine. Chemically synthesized higenamine usually has higher purity, but it is not a “natural” source. Conversely, naturally-derived plant sources of higenamine, including aconite (Wolf’s bane) and fruit of the sacred bamboo, may contain substances that are toxic to animals and humans [R, R].