The Veganism Thread

[Eldron]

You have to ask what sort of people could actually do this and go home at night without remorse? I would love nothing more than seeing these guys on the wrong end of my steel toe capped boots....

 

Best you aim those boots at yourself, your wife or most people on the planet...

 

We make them do it.

 

We buy cheap goods, we complain if our make up burns our eyes, we don't investigate where our food/products come from, we want tasty/quality goods at what we consider reasonable prices etc.

 

Capitalism is consumer based and we are the consumers. People don't go and torture anmals for fun - they do it for profit and we prodivde that profit one purchase at a time.

 

If everyone refused to buy products that were tested on animals the above pictures would be relegated to history.

[Odinson]

You have to ask what sort of people could actually do this and go home at night without remorse? I would love nothing more than seeing these guys on the wrong end of my steel toe capped boots....

 

I don't think blame should be laid at the feet of the workers. It's the organisation and the desire for this kind of testing that is problematic. Just like in slaughterhouses, these people have to deal with non-human animals who are being subjected to immense suffering and want to avoid it, so they resist and fight back. Ultimately, much of the mishandling is a result of the frustration caused by that resistance. 

[IceCreamMan]

Best you aim those boots at yourself, your wife or most people on the planet...

 

We make them do it.

 

We buy cheap goods, we complain if our make up burns our eyes, we don't investigate where our food/products come from, we want tasty/quality goods at what we consider reasonable prices etc.

 

Capitalism is consumer based and we are the consumers. People don't go and torture anmals for fun - they do it for profit and we prodivde that profit one purchase at a time.

 

If everyone refused to buy products that were tested on animals the above pictures would be relegated to history.

 

Eldron, superbly said.

 

Abso bloody lutely 110% true.

 

Time to acknowledge that. Change our habits.

[DJR]

Best you aim those boots at yourself, your wife or most people on the planet...

 

We make them do it.

 

We buy cheap goods, we complain if our make up burns our eyes, we don't investigate where our food/products come from, we want tasty/quality goods at what we consider reasonable prices etc.

 

Capitalism is consumer based and we are the consumers. People don't go and torture anmals for fun - they do it for profit and we prodivde that profit one purchase at a time.

 

If everyone refused to buy products that were tested on animals the above pictures would be relegated to history.

We insist on safe and effective medicines for killer diseases, we want our new life saving surgery to work the first time.....where do we draw the line? I find the ethical questions interesting. Some of he greatest advances in human health came through research in animals, our own Cape highlight, the 1st heart transplant, is a supreme example of this. The closer it gets to our own life and death, the more willing we are to compromise  the life and death of others. Not making any judgement here, just find it interesting.

[Odinson]

For those who find the images and video shared disturbing and want to do something about it, there's a lot you can do. At home, start by looking at your toiletries/cosmetics and cleaning products. 

 

To find products that are cruelty-free there are a bunch of resources online. Here's a few:

• https://www.crueltyfreekitty.com/list-of-cruelty-free-brands/#
• http://vegansociety.org.za/savs-endorsed-products/
• https://www.essentials.co.za/beauty-and-fashion/cruelty-free-make-up-beauty-brands-south-africa
• http://www.vegansa.com/products.php

If a product you typically use isn't labelled as cruelty free or vegan, you can always email the manufacturer and ask them whether something is cruelty-free and vegan. Here's a good resource on writing those kinds of mails: https://www.crueltyfreekitty.com/cruelty-free-101/how-to-determine-company-cruelty-free/

 

The same applies to your cleaning products. If you're not sure, find out. It's your right as a consumer to know how the product has been made (its constituent ingredients) and how it was determined as safe for use. 

 

There's no reason to use cosmetics/toiletries/home cleaning products that have been tested or derived from animals. 

 

A little bit of research and you can cut out support for these abhorrent practices. 

[DJR]

...........There's no reason to use cosmetics/toiletries/home cleaning products that have been tested or derived from animals..........

I'm 100% with you on this one

[Odinson]

One thing to keep in mind when asking a producer whether their 'Product X' is tested on animals, is that they are quite sly in how they can approach it: 

• They can rightly claim that 'Product X' hasn't been tested on animals, but it's constituent ingredients may have been tested; 
• They can claim that they themselves don't test on animals, but oftentimes contract testing out to a 3rd party; 
• If that product (cosmetics/toiletries) is sold in mainland China, it has been tested on animals. Animal testing is required by law in China. Thus, they might not have tested in EU or ZA, but if they sell in China, they paid for testing to be done. 

[Mojoman]

Best you aim those boots at yourself, your wife or most people on the planet...

 

We make them do it.

 

We buy cheap goods, we complain if our make up burns our eyes, we don't investigate where our food/products come from, we want tasty/quality goods at what we consider reasonable prices etc.

 

Capitalism is consumer based and we are the consumers. People don't go and torture anmals for fun - they do it for profit and we prodivde that profit one purchase at a time.

 

If everyone refused to buy products that were tested on animals the above pictures would be relegated to history.

sure we make them do it...but it's now 2019....prison are to max capacity with the dregs of society ...murderers...serial killers etc...test it on those that are no longer part of society and wi never become part of society again.

 

I could be starving on the streets but there is still no way I could do what these people do and go home with at night and think nothing of it.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Mojoman

[Eldron]

We insist on safe and effective medicines for killer diseases, we want our new life saving surgery to work the first time.....where do we draw the line? I find the ethical questions interesting. Some of he greatest advances in human health came through research in animals, our own Cape highlight, the 1st heart transplant, is a supreme example of this. The closer it gets to our own life and death, the more willing we are to compromise  the life and death of others. Not making any judgement here, just find it interesting.

 

Agreed. As always things are never binary...

 

Medical advances and such get some leeway from me when it comes to animal testing etc. Ultimately "the greater good" needs to be morally flexible.

 

Testing make up on animals is a big no no in my opinion. It serves no purpose other than to make products safe and allow some women look "better" than other women. I'm not a big fan of make up in general. In the bigger scheme of things make up seems irrelevant. Fortunately public pressure has forced companies to make produce make up that isnøt tested on animals so women can make an ethical choice.

 

A great example of people using their money and spending power to change industry!

[Eldron]

sure we make them do it...but it's now 2019....prison are to max capacity with the dregs of society ...murderers...serial killers etc...test it on those that are no longer part of society and wi never become part of society again.

 

I could be starving on the streets but there is still no way I could do what these people do and go home with at night and think nothing of it.

 

Could is the big word there. I think it's very different when you are ACTUALLY starving.

 

That and the "one day at a time" theory. Killing your first beagle is nearly impossible, killing your millionth beagle is a pesky little thing you need to do before you can make yourself some coffee.

[Chris_]

Could is the big word there. I think it's very different when you are ACTUALLY starving.

 

That and the "one day at a time" theory. Killing your first beagle is nearly impossible, killing your millionth beagle is a pesky little thing you need to do before you can make yourself some coffee.

 

I was with Mojo earlier on but you make a good point. 

 

We can teach ourselves to kill humans because a person wearing medals said so. We can teach ourselves to kill humans because its your next meal ticket. We too can teach ourselves too kill beagles because our next paycheck said so.

 

Sad. Ultimately.

[Eldron]

I was with Mojo earlier on but you make a good point. 

 

We can teach ourselves to kill humans because a person wearing medals said so. We can teach ourselves to kill humans because its your next meal ticket. We too can teach ourselves too kill beagles because our next paycheck said so.

 

Sad. Ultimately.

 

 

Queue violin music Eldron is going on an emotive rant :-)

 

Living in polar opposite countries like SA and Denmark has been quite interesting.

 

In SA I ate meat, my friends ate meat, everybody ate meat and we made fun of vegans and vegetarians. A nice comfy echo chamber of people that made me feel absolutely comfortable doing what I was doing.

 

Then I moved to Denmark and suddenly I was the outlier. It made me question how I was living. No big epiphones or eureka moments just small changes that ended up as a collectively decent size change.

 

I would never had made this change if I hadn't left SA. No motivation or even a hint of a reason.

 

I think there is a solid reason why most people on this forum that are considering eating less meat and doing more about the environment are expats.

[Chris_]

For those who find the images and video shared disturbing and want to do something about it, there's a lot you can do. At home, start by looking at your toiletries/cosmetics and cleaning products. 

 

To find products that are cruelty-free there are a bunch of resources online. Here's a few:

• https://www.crueltyfreekitty.com/list-of-cruelty-free-brands/#
• http://vegansociety.org.za/savs-endorsed-products/
• https://www.essentials.co.za/beauty-and-fashion/cruelty-free-make-up-beauty-brands-south-africa
• http://www.vegansa.com/products.php

If a product you typically use isn't labelled as cruelty free or vegan, you can always email the manufacturer and ask them whether something is cruelty-free and vegan. Here's a good resource on writing those kinds of mails: https://www.crueltyfreekitty.com/cruelty-free-101/how-to-determine-company-cruelty-free/

 

The same applies to your cleaning products. If you're not sure, find out. It's your right as a consumer to know how the product has been made (its constituent ingredients) and how it was determined as safe for use. 

 

There's no reason to use cosmetics/toiletries/home cleaning products that have been tested or derived from animals. 

 

A little bit of research and you can cut out support for these abhorrent practices. 

 

Cruelty free kitty was actually the site I stumbled upon the other day. Thanks for the SA site, that'll help. 

[Patchelicious]

Queue violin music Eldron is going on an emotive rant :-)

 

Living in polar opposite countries like SA and Denmark has been quite interesting.

 

In SA I ate meat, my friends ate meat, everybody ate meat and we made fun of vegans and vegetarians. A nice comfy echo chamber of people that made me feel absolutely comfortable doing what I was doing.

 

Then I moved to Denmark and suddenly I was the outlier. It made me question how I was living. No big epiphones or eureka moments just small changes that ended up as a collectively decent size change.

 

I would never had made this change if I hadn't left SA. No motivation or even a hint of a reason.

 

I think there is a solid reason why most people on this forum that are considering eating less meat and doing more about the environment are expats.

Yes, when you aren’t fearing for you life, worrying about power outages, living in a self preservation mode, living in a society with low moral Fibre etc, you actually have capacity to worry about concepts like veganism or climate change.

[GrahamS2]

Best you aim those boots at yourself, your wife or most people on the planet...

 

We make them do it.

 

We buy cheap goods, we complain if our make up burns our eyes, we don't investigate where our food/products come from, we want tasty/quality goods at what we consider reasonable prices etc.

 

Capitalism is consumer based and we are the consumers. People don't go and torture anmals for fun - they do it for profit and we prodivde that profit one purchase at a time.

 

If everyone refused to buy products that were tested on animals the above pictures would be relegated to history.

Precisely. Any time you use suncream, soap, medication, and a whole list of products, you contribute to this indirectly.

 

It doesn't make the treatment of these animals alright, but from a scientific point of view, there are many, many important products us humans wouldn't have if it weren't for animal testing. They unfortunately play a vital role in research science.

[Pure Savage]

Precisely. Any time you use suncream, soap, medication, and a whole list of products, you contribute to this indirectly.

 

It doesn't make the treatment of these animals alright, but from a scientific point of view, there are many, many important products us humans wouldn't have if it weren't for animal testing. They unfortunately play a vital role in research science.

I know personally that in one major industry that used to animal test around the world, there is now no need to animal test any product, this same tech is going into other industries.

 

However if you would like to sell cosmetics in China, you have to pay a company to test your already tested product and sold around the world on animals.

 

What makes it even harder is because some of the biggest cosmetic brands sell in China and have a lot of money, they can afford to pay for their “non animal testing sticker” from a certain anti cruelty association which turns a blind eye on animal testing carried out by 3rd parties on a companies product. So that non animal cruelty sticker on products means nothing.

 

Moral of the story, if you want to avoid the above, just check if your cosmetics are sold in China.