The Veganism Thread

[Odinson]

   

 

[GrahamS2]

If you are mostly motivated by the right of animals to live, like that chap in Odi's video who said that fact that hippos have canines proves we humans dont need meat, one has to be aware that he will likely not accept the myriad of carbon reducing actions one can take as good enough, while you are still eating meat 1 day a week. Just as an example of motive misalignment, doesn't make them wrong, just not aligned. 

These arguments make me chuckle, same as the silly "but gorillas eat plants" argument. Hippos (and gorillas) have tiny brains in order to make room for enormous masseter muscles that they need to chew on vast quantities of raw plant matter. They also have humongous digestive systems to allow them to process all the food they spend 8+ hours a day consuming. Humans don't need either of those since we eat cooked foods and energy dense foods, like meat.

Edited November 29, 2018 by GrahamS2

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Nothing. There is nothing wrong with it. 

 

Bees are one of the multitude of pollinators. I posted a study on the hub, whereby the different pollinators in Mexican (world's largest avo producing country) avo orchards were assessed. Bees were some of the most ineffective pollinators, as they preferred plants growing outside of the orchards. 

 

The whole bee/avo/almond argument is an elaborate strawman. 

Agreed. 

[Patchelicious]

These arguments make me chuckle, same as the silly "but gorillas eat plants" argument. Hippos (and gorillas) have tiny brains in order to make room for enormous masseter muscles that they need to chew on vast quantities of raw plant matter. They also have humongous digestive systems to allow them to process all the food they spend 8+ hours a day consuming. Humans don't need either of those since we eat cooked foods and energy dense foods, like meat.

This is kind of the point that I was making. If you are fighting for the right of animals to live, then argue to that. Don’t construct flimsy peripheral arguments in the hopes that merely having a multi pronged argument will strength your position.

[Mousea]

Its seems there are 3 different discussions here for pro plant based diets.

 

1: Personal Health

2: Carbon footprint reduction.

3. Animals lives

 

The spread of your personal motivation over those 3 is what seems to frame our personal arguments.

 

So if I am mostly motivated to simply reduce my carbon foot print, there are other ways, which we have discussed that can really help. But that wont appease the mostly animal rights motivated people. and on the health thing, there are other meat inclusive diets that has some good science behind that might improve our longevity over our current diets.

 

The reason why I am pointing this out, is that we need to be honest about our motivations, if we are not we will likely always talk past each other.

 

If you are mostly motivated by the right of animals to live, like that chap in Odi's video who said that fact that hippos have canines proves we humans dont need meat, one has to be aware that he will likely not accept the myriad of carbon reducing actions one can take as good enough, while you are still eating meat 1 day a week. Just as an example of motive misalignment, doesn't make them wrong, just not aligned.

Umm Hippos have been know to eat meat.

There are many wildlife films that show them doing Just that.

That is why Hippos have those teeth

"BBC Earth the truth about Hippos"

[Odinson]

This is kind of the point that I was making. If you are fighting for the right of animals to live, then argue to that. Don’t construct flimsy peripheral arguments in the hopes that merely having a multi pronged argument will strength your position.

 

It's more about the awareness and education. 

 

If animal agriculture was carbon neutral, then you argue the ethics of animal slaughter. However, it's more nuanced than that. Animal agriculture has significant environmental impacts, so an animal rights activist can highlight that too. Same with health. 

 

It's for each person to consider and see what resonates with them. 

 

An animal rights supporter can cut out animal products and it makes his/her cardiologist and the environmentalists happy. Same for the other combos of 'motivation'. 

[Odinson]

These arguments make me chuckle, same as the silly "but gorillas eat plants" argument. Hippos (and gorillas) have tiny brains in order to make room for enormous masseter muscles that they need to chew on vast quantities of raw plant matter. They also have humongous digestive systems to allow them to process all the food they spend 8+ hours a day consuming. Humans don't need either of those since we eat cooked foods and energy dense foods, like meat.

 

That argument is just a facetious response to internet trolls whose best smackdown of veganism is 'but canines tho'. 

[Patchelicious]

That argument is just a facetious response to internet trolls whose best smackdown of veganism is 'but canines tho'. 

Its not a facetious response. Its an incorrect response which ultimately weakens the credibility of other good points. 

 

Come on dude, even when a guy makes a silly comment its the fault of pro meat guys? Really?

[Patchelicious]

It's more about the awareness and education. 

 

If animal agriculture was carbon neutral, then you argue the ethics of animal slaughter. However, it's more nuanced than that. Animal agriculture has significant environmental impacts, so an animal rights activist can highlight that too. Same with health. 

 

It's for each person to consider and see what resonates with them. 

 

An animal rights supporter can cut out animal products and it makes his/her cardiologist and the environmentalists happy. Same for the other combos of 'motivation'. 

I agree they could and should.

 

What I am saying is that if I then respond with saying, ok, I will reduce my meat consumption by 90% because it will reduce my participation in the animal agriculture carbon foot print by 90%, but I will not stop eating meat, do you think my answer would be acceptable to an animal rights activist? I am not so sure. 

[Odinson]

Its not a facetious response. Its an incorrect response which ultimately weakens the credibility of other good points. 

 

Come on dude, even when a guy makes a silly comment its the fault of pro meat guys? Really?

 

I'm very aware of a lot of vegans who have the potential to undermine the movement, take Peta and those who storm meat aisles as an example. 

 

No one in life hits all the right notes all the time. The movement has matured a lot, but also diversified a lot. So, when a very animal rights focused person talks about the topic, he/she will be focusing on the ethical aspect and maybe miss some aspects on environmental and health concerns. Take the message whence it comes. 

[Odinson]

I agree they could and should.

 

What I am saying is that if I then respond with saying, ok, I will reduce my meat consumption by 90% because it will reduce my participation in the animal agriculture carbon foot print by 90%, but I will not stop eating meat, do you think my answer would be acceptable to an animal rights activist? I am not so sure. 

 

You're right. You're not going to satisfy all the people all the time. A hardcore environmentalist could also **** all over your efforts too. 

 

That being said, any level-headed person should commend significant efforts in this regard. If you're 90% plant-based, coming from 20%, that's awesome. No two ways about it. 

[Robbie Stewart]

All this talk of meat is making me hungry.

 

[Odinson]

All this talk of meat is making me hungry.

 

Feature-Sous-Vide-Rib-Eye-Steak.jpg

 

Hey Robbie. 

 

There are a lot of meat alternatives available, that taste and look very similar to animal flesh, but does away with the cruelty, environmental damage and health implications of animal protein. 

 

In the not too distant future you'll even be able to eat real animal meat, grown in a lab, if that's you're thing. 

[Patchelicious]

Hey Robbie. 

 

There are a lot of meat alternatives available, that taste and look very similar to animal flesh, but does away with the cruelty, environmental damage and health implications of animal protein. 

 

In the not too distant future you'll even be able to eat real animal meat, grown in a lab, if that's you're thing. 

 

But that contradicts your motivation that animal proteins are bad for your health?

[Gen]

So my one son and I both have Iron deficiencies.. obviously there are plant based foods that are rich iron..but what is the comparison in quantity vs a 250g steak to get the same amount of Iron in.

[Gen]

 

 

Hey Robbie.

 

There are a lot of meat alternatives available, that taste and look very similar to animal flesh, but does away with the cruelty, environmental damage and health implications of animal protein.

 

In the not too distant future you'll even be able to eat real animal meat, grown in a lab, if that's you're thing.

Imagine that.. a lab steak.. I am not ready for that