For the aviation fans

[Quagga]

Thanks re the hovering in IMC, I expect tricky but not sure of impossible. I would imagine that the S76 would have a capable autopilot. Anyways, this I shall look into.

It makes me mad that with 2 and a half statute miles viz (Van Nuys) and 1100ft cloud base (reported AGL) and the helo flying at 1400 ft,(Altitude) he had 500 feet above and 600 below (ground is 800ft at Van Nuys) certainly in limits for Special VFR. Why they did not slow the machine and proceed with caution and indeed land, I do knot now. Big hills there in the valley north of LA. So sad.

Did you watch the bronco channel where he said that the autopilot does not engage below a certain airspeed. What instrument would the pilot use to hover in could as he does not have a visual fix?

[Bonus]

WOW, what a view.....

 

But seeing snow covered mountain ranges like that is something most us won't get to experience(sure we got the drankensburg but it doesn't compare).

 

Snow capped mountains in the distance 6 months of the year here. I never tire of looking at them! 

[Lotus]

If this doesn't do your head in then you got no (aviation) soul. These bad boys have no time for environmental laws - they are the Law.

 

 

And to make it even better, you need this soundtrack in the back (from 4:36 or so, to get the mood going)

[Spokey]

Did you watch the bronco channel where he said that the autopilot does not engage below a certain airspeed. What instrument would the pilot use to hover in could as he does not have a visual fix?

Yes, thanks, I did after it was brought up here. I t was very interesting. It makes total sense not being able to account for the drift in the hover. Surely that is something that can be improved upon by the engineering and avionics fellows ( in time) Inertial Referance System of some sort springs to mind.

 

But in any event, with so many accidents being the result of poor decision making some where along the line I do like to look at that aspect of the job. In this instance a decision made too late to exit the situation safely. Many occasions it could have been averted from not getting airborne to landing at the numerous airports enroute.

[Spokey]

If this doesn't do your head in then you got no (aviation) soul. These bad boys have no time for environmental laws - they are the Law.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8EURBL53_k

 

This one for young Greta!

 

[DJR]

..........These bad boys have no time for environmental laws - they are the Law.............

To be honest, those things even seem to ignore the law of gravity if you ask me

Edited January 29, 2020 by DJR

[Lotus]

To be honest, those things even seem to ignore the law of gravity if you ask me

Love the way those wing-tip wheels are all over the place on take-off.

 

But the laws of gravity are strictly observed when the HE payload comes off the racks.

[Long Wheel Base]

Public not going to be happy when they hear about SAA's next bailout and I am not talking about the R3.5 Billion we got today. It will hit the news soon. This Les Matuson Business Rescue oke clearly has a way of convincing people. This kind of money doesn't come easy I would say. Fingers crossed it gets used properly.

[patham]

Love the way those wing-tip wheels are all over the place on take-off.

 

But the laws of gravity are strictly observed when the HE payload comes off the racks.

 

And HE payloads are now all they can carry (ALCMs excepted).

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/31825/the-air-forces-b-52h-bomber-force-has-said-goodbye-to-its-nuclear-bombs

[SwissVan]

Public not going to be happy when they hear about SAA's next bailout and I am not talking about the R3.5 Billion we got today. It will hit the news soon. This Les Matuson Business Rescue oke clearly has a way of convincing people. This kind of money doesn't come easy I would say. Fingers crossed it gets used properly.

Bail out from govt or another source?

[Long Wheel Base]

Bail out from govt or another source?

Lips sealed for now unfortunately. Can't/Don't want to say anything until it hits the news officially. Should be latest next week sometime. Big changes happening, for the better. But it won't happen over night but the general public won't see it like that.

[kosmonooit]

Yes, thanks, I did after it was brought up here. I t was very interesting. It makes total sense not being able to account for the drift in the hover. Surely that is something that can be improved upon by the engineering and avionics fellows ( in time) Inertial Referance System of some sort springs to mind.

 

But in any event, with so many accidents being the result of poor decision making some where along the line I do like to look at that aspect of the job. In this instance a decision made too late to exit the situation safely. Many occasions it could have been averted from not getting airborne to landing at the numerous airports enroute.

Facts are still being gathered and whilst it seems that it could have been pilot error something else could have happened.. 

 

ie There was a fairly rapid ascent then a sharp descent just before impact .. what happened there? surely such an experienced and IMC rated pilot finding himself in clouds would have ascended and then asked for emergency IMC clearance / help whatever, but looks like something happened that cause that last rapid descent.

 

Look at the speed - altitude plot here

 

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n72ex#23a8271e

Edited January 29, 2020 by kosmonooit

[kosmonooit]

Lips sealed for now unfortunately. Can't/Don't want to say anything until it hits the news officially. Should be latest next week sometime. Big changes happening, for the better. But it won't happen over night but the general public won't see it like that.

I see the Pilots Assoc.  are getting vocal about getting some managers who can manage in, and at least one pilot on the board. Doubt any Comrades are listening though. They should make their point stronger.

[Spokey]

Facts are still being gathered and whilst it seems that it could have been pilot error something else could have happened..

 

ie There was a fairly rapid ascent then a sharp descent just before impact .. what happened there? surely such an experienced and IMC rated pilot finding himself in clouds would have ascended and then asked for emergency IMC clearance / help whatever, but looks like something happened that cause that last rapid descent.

 

Look at the speed - altitude plot here

 

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n72ex#23a8271e

Thanks for the link.

With out being an investigator and just a regular fixed wing guy there are things I question and no disrespect to the pilot. Sure, experienced and IF rated, but how current and how much practicle IF time? Helos tend to fly visualy out of all of that IMC stuff (generalizing I know). Looks like a hard pull up and turn, possible overbank and loss of control, effective spiral into the ground. Single pilot ops is hard enough as it is let alone in crap Special VFR coditions. The transition to instruments will also add to the problems if any disorientation had occurred. A hard pull up and simultaneous turn can easily disorientate someone who has suddenly gone IMC.

Sorry if it sounds like I am accusing the poor pilot, Perhaps there was a mechanical but I (we all) have seen too often how experienced folk get it wrong too.

Anyway, all will be revealed in time and for now I will stick with my theory.......much like the Citation near George....avoidable.

 

Edited,,,,,,content.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Spokey

[Bonus]

Looks like BA have cancelled flights to China....

[Bateleur1]

Looks like BA have cancelled flights to China....

 

Lufthansa as well