E- Bikes and electronic shifting

[rotorbug]

With the development of E-Bikes and electronic shifting, would it make sense for the E-Bike to be able to communicate with the electronic shifting.

 

For example, lets say you were in the wrong gear after cresting a hill, the bike could shift 3-4 gears so that your pedalling would be able to assist the electric motor.

[fanievb]

just buy a scooter with an automatic gearbox then

[geoffois]

so that your pedalling would be able to assist the electric motor.

Isn’t it meant to be “pedal assist?”

[emoji848]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[anybody seen george?]

Think the ebike industry will probably head this way. Right now don't think the capability or rather the collaboration between the manufacturers of the components & drive trains is there.

[dave303e]

always thought a rasberry pi + cadence meter + power meter + Di2 setup could make a mean auto gearbox on a bicycle...

[bikebloke]

totally a good plan i mean if you going to ride a Moped to save effort on pedalling why waste energy having to use your thumb to change gear

 

if they added self drive you could just map the ride on your phone and the ebike would do everything and bring you home after  

[rotorbug]

Think the ebike industry will probably head this way. Right now don't think the capability or rather the collaboration between the manufacturers of the components & drive trains is there.

Only sensible reply so far. I am looking at it from a technical point of view, not whether people should use E-Bikes in the first place.

 

E-Bikes opens up a whole world of cycling to people that might not normally get involved in cycling.

[Shebeen]

always thought a rasberry pi + cadence meter + power meter + Di2 setup could make a mean auto gearbox on a bicycle...

sure someone has tried it already!

 

https://youtu.be/SpKltBb2n1M?t=366

[Long Wheel Base]

How exactly do these things work? Does the motor assist all the time or only when you push the "NOS" button? This morning while commuting to work on my 29er I went passed 3 elderly people on these e bike things. Now I am not fit at the moment but I am a racing snake so I do probably ride a bit faster than most people but I passed these 3(2 guys and a lady) like they had these bikes with dead batteries. I am sure if they had these motors running then they would have been going a lot faster.

[Dirkitech]

How exactly do these things work? Does the motor assist all the time or only when you push the "NOS" button? This morning while commuting to work on my 29er I went passed 3 elderly people on these e bike things. Now I am not fit at the moment but I am a racing snake so I do probably ride a bit faster than most people but I passed these 3(2 guys and a lady) like they had these bikes with dead batteries. I am sure if they had these motors running then they would have been going a lot faster.

When I last followed ebikes, they were still pedal assist. If your cadence was 5 on a 32-32, the motor wasn't going to magically turn that cadence into 90. My point is, I understand it to aid proportionately, so a old person pedalling soft and slowly will get a soft and slow pedal assist (good thing too, dangerous otherwise!) but if you're gunning it going 35kmh, itll pick up the slack and help you breach 40-45kmh. Have a pinch of salt before reading this though. 

 

Edit: just to clarify, I'm discussing the pedal assist battery operated electric motors

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

How exactly do these things work? Does the motor assist all the time or only when you push the "NOS" button? This morning while commuting to work on my 29er I went passed 3 elderly people on these e bike things. Now I am not fit at the moment but I am a racing snake so I do probably ride a bit faster than most people but I passed these 3(2 guys and a lady) like they had these bikes with dead batteries. I am sure if they had these motors running then they would have been going a lot faster.

 

Motor only kicks in when you're pedalling. Button would switch between modes which govern the level of assistance ie: Eco would give 25% of the 250w aid, Trail would give 50% and boost would give 100% for as long as you're pedalling (in a nutshell). There is no throttle.

 

When I last followed ebikes, they were still pedal assist. If your cadence was 5 on a 32-32, the motor wasn't going to magically turn that cadence into 90. My point is, I understand it to aid proportionately, so a old person pedalling soft and slowly will get a soft and slow pedal assist (good thing too, dangerous otherwise!) but if you're gunning it going 35kmh, itll pick up the slack and help you breach 40-45kmh. Have a pinch of salt before reading this though. 

 

Edit: just to clarify, I'm discussing the pedal assist battery operated electric motors

Well, yes and no. The "e-bike" mountain bikes are still pedal assist, and have different modes (as above, may differ from manu to manu) but you control the cadence. Cuts off above 25kph, so above that you're solely on your own power (unless you de-restrict them, which can be done)

 

There are, however, other bikes that literally are e-motos with DH tyres on them, that have a thumb-actuated throttle. These are not the e-bikes we are discussing, and there are laws governing the use of those in the EU & USA, afaik. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

With the development of E-Bikes and electronic shifting, would it make sense for the E-Bike to be able to communicate with the electronic shifting.

 

For example, lets say you were in the wrong gear after cresting a hill, the bike could shift 3-4 gears so that your pedalling would be able to assist the electric motor.

There's already a proto of an e-bike with a CVT-esque transmission. Bases the "gear selection" on a particular cadence requirement and selects for you. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/revontes-new-ebike-motor-with-stepless-gearing-eliminates-the-rear-derailleur.html

 

Revonte

A New E-bike Motor with Stepless Gearing

Motor and battery: Revonte's CVT transmission automatically synchronizes your desired pedaling torque with power assist across the entire speed range - uphill or downhill.

The e-bike market carries a significant potential in several domains, like getting more to people ride bikes and making modern mountain bikes even more versatile. In the technological side however, the progress has been incremental at best. We at Revonte are about to change that by providing an e-bike motor option that differentiates itself clearly from the existing options. Please continue reading to see why and how. 

CVT - A Brief Background 

If you aren't well versed in automotive or industrial world, the three-letter acronym CVT might not be familiar. It stands for continuously variable transmission – a technology which has been used in a wide range of industrial applications. In the car manufacturing world, heavy hitters like Subaru, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Volkswagen, Audi and Mercedes have made their own versions. We have implemented the time-tested technology to two wheeled and (mostly) human powered vehicles. CVT offers significant and even unheard benefits and ride qualities when it comes to e-bikes in particular

What Is It? 

We at Revonte have created a new type of e-bike motor and drivetrain construction which is based – you guessed it right – on CVT technology. The technology principle itself can be considered quite old. In this case that comes with a considerable advantage. If a technology has stood the test of time, it means that it is highly functional and in this case, robust. The former can be said about the conventional rear derailleur as well. The latter? Well, let´s leave that for you, the reader, to decide.

The principle behind our CVT motor could be described as elegant in all of its simplicity. Besides the ingenious principle behind the CVT technology, we’ve made a considerable effort to make it light and compact by means of mathematical modelling, simulation, and good old-fashioned engineering. After all the hard work, we can say that the result is very pleasing. 

The “hardware side” is only half of the equation, although an important one. Besides that, the technology is more robust than any other existing one in the e-bike market, our motor ride qualities are highly adaptable via software. This means two things, which are very profound:

1) More adjustability and choices for the rider – more on this later.
2) One motor can be used in all bikes, no matter the intended use and application. This will make a very happy product manager, no matter the size of the company he is working in.

The Benefits – What It Does? 

The term “continuous” behind the acronym C in CVT gives a strong clue what’s to come. Taken straight from the CVT motor Wikipedia page:
 

“Shiftless transmission, single-speed transmission, stepless transmission, pulley transmission, or, in case of motorcycles, a ‘twist-and-go’, is an automatic transmission that can change seamlessly through a continuous range of effective gear ratios.”

Yes, you read it right. Our motor has stepless gearing which means that the bike can be ridden with constant, self-selected cadence – everywhere. 
No matter if you’re sprinting towards a double with a high gnar factor, pedaling up the hill for the next dose of ascending fun, or riding casually along the local trail, changing between coasting and pedaling modes. No gear or cadence changes are needed, if the rider does not wish so. The motor and software do the work for you in that department – continuously – and will serve its duties in any type of bike, whether it would be hardtail or a heavy-duty rig that lives for downhills.

However, if the traditional indexed shifting is preferred, that poses no problem. The software can be adapted to any number of gears. The current “standard” of 12-speeds is just an arbitrary number, certainly not the limit. With our system, one could go as low as 5- or as high as 20-speed, for example. Once again, this is only a matter of software preferences.

Time to Ditch the Derailleur 

The current derailleur is a respectable feat of engineering. It has served it´s time though and one could argue that the existing potential has been used for the most part. Broken derailleurs, bent hangers, rattling chains and clutches worn too loose will be a memory in the past, located in the same bin next to cantilever brakes.

Our drivetrain employs a single-speed setup. All the gear ratios, automatic transmission or indexed gears are achieved by use of a single chain (or belt, if that's what you like to roll with). This brings the drivetrain complexity down by several magnitudes, meaning fewer braking parts, less need for maintenance and therefore, less unwanted headaches. Frame designers and even whole engineering departments will most likely welcome this change with open arms as well. The end users, meaning the riders, will benefit the most though, with a significantly improved riding experience.
 

Locating the motor around the bottom bracket is non-negotiable. This keeps the center of gravity at the center of the bike and as low as possible, which produces superior handling characteristics. There aren’t any other options for motor placement when it comes to riding characteristics and simplicity of construction. Messing this setup by attaching a derailleur and a heavy cassette to the rear wheel is poor choice which has the default option for too long. 

Placing the motor around the bottom bracket is the superior choice in every aspect. Leaving the derailleur out makes it even better. 

What Will Follow? 

We are working extremely hard to get the finalized product out to daylight. News about further details, photos, blog articles and most importantly release dates (when confirmed) can be found at our site Revonte.com.

Pay us a visit and stay tuned. It´s about to change how e-bikes are made and ridden. We are not here to add small incremental improvement to the already stacked pile. We prefer a complete revolution. 

[shaper]

always thought a rasberry pi + cadence meter + power meter + Di2 setup could make a mean auto gearbox on a bicycle...

Commercially available https://proshiftracing.com/

[Long Wheel Base]

When I last followed ebikes, they were still pedal assist. If your cadence was 5 on a 32-32, the motor wasn't going to magically turn that cadence into 90. My point is, I understand it to aid proportionately, so a old person pedalling soft and slowly will get a soft and slow pedal assist (good thing too, dangerous otherwise!) but if you're gunning it going 35kmh, itll pick up the slack and help you breach 40-45kmh. Have a pinch of salt before reading this though. 

 

Edit: just to clarify, I'm discussing the pedal assist battery operated electric motors

 

 

Motor only kicks in when you're pedalling. Button would switch between modes which govern the level of assistance ie: Eco would give 25% of the 250w aid, Trail would give 50% and boost would give 100% for as long as you're pedalling (in a nutshell). There is no throttle.

 

Well, yes and no. The "e-bike" mountain bikes are still pedal assist, and have different modes (as above, may differ from manu to manu) but you control the cadence. Cuts off above 25kph, so above that you're solely on your own power (unless you de-restrict them, which can be done)

 

There are, however, other bikes that literally are e-motos with DH tyres on them, that have a thumb-actuated throttle. These are not the e-bikes we are discussing, and there are laws governing the use of those in the EU & USA, afaik. 

Ok cool thanks guys. Yeah these 3 were going pretty slowly. I was sitting at about 165-170 bpm when I passed them so didn't have time to see what brands they were. 2 were all matt black and one was black and silver.

[stringbean]

Don’t think ebikes will go electronic gears at the moment.

While everyone is trying to go 11/12/13 etc speed on normal bikes,ebikes don’t really need more thas 8 or 9 speed.

Currently there is so much extra torque going thru the drive system ebike riders are reporting stretched chains and worn cassettes at around 1000km.With that in mind you would not want a thin 12sp chain but rather something like a 10 sp one.

Electric gears are not needed to compensate as you suggested during a climb.that can already be done by the app that controls the Ebike.

There is a brilliant Italian that developed the BLEvo app for Specialized bikes.

Besides a million other things you can set with the app you ca set a ebike ride according to a max HR you want to be at.As you get closer to that HR the motor will just jive more assistance so you don’t go over it.