WrightJnr Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 I agree that the pendulum has swung the other way. I think there are a few things that contribute to this. I’m not sure though that it’s the right long term solution. But then again, seems many businesses are not or cannot plan for the long term anymore. Back in the day, it was common for individuals to only work for one or two companies their whole lives. Whether this was due to it being a government job or not there were benefits in staying around. Pension plans in my mind the biggest. As a company would look after you long after you retire. Then there was a set and strict regime in place to govern promotions and your rise up through the company. Today, it’s all about big money. Companies want to make big and so do individuals. This has lead to different thoughts and strategies. One of these has been that “happy” workers are better workers thus will make us more money. In putting this into action things like “employee satisfaction surveys” and other “put the employee first” tools have shifted the power from employer to employee. The employee now calls the shots to a degree and has way more power than before. I think this worked at first. But the lazy nature of the human-being and lack of controlling the strategy has lead to underperforming greedy staff than feel entitled and valuable just because they rock up to work everyday. Then we add to this the complexity around who we can hire based on sex, race, age, qualifications etc and we end up with a workforce that is just not up to scratch in many instances.
intern Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 I have seen this all too often and it is absolutely unacceptable, despicable an disgusting.Most of the students who came through our setup had this attitude. Never worked before, fresh out of university and now they are big shots with a degree and the world now owes them........and we accept it. Lets leave work ethics out of this as this is another issue. Most students I despise intensely because of this. Simply cannot understand it. I am too old for this me, me mine attitude.Most of what they have to learn we have forgotten about ages ago. And then you get the eager, humble student who you nurture and they seem to go further faster in their field than those renegade students with attitude.Gonna dive in here. I've written and seen a lot said about how employers have to cater to millennials. My response is always...uhhhh whaaat? Those and any other little Fokkers should fit into the way things are done now already. Wasn't it like that when you started your career? I don't recall having people falling over themselves to lick my nethers because I was the latest, greatest, newest-fangled Gen X cruising into the workplace. Nah mate, I had to cut my hair, adjust my attitude and knuckle down, or be on my way...
stefmeister Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 I agree if you are head hunted. So then it is all about what the company can offer you, or incentivise you. But when you made an application for an interview and it is only round one, perhaps a better question would be what perks form part of the package on offer. Not why they should work for us. They are offering their skills to us, not "our" skills to them. I selected your CV to come into the interview. So asking me to explain to them why they should come work for us, still leaves me dumbfounded. It's almost like you view every applicant as a jobless person, desperate and hard-up for the position that offer the bare minimum, and that they should be just too thankful for even being granted an interview. That attitude also probably translates to others that the position will be a dead end one for them with little or no prospects of growth. Or at least that's how it comes across and with what I've seen before.
Sepia Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Gonna dive in here. I've written and seen a lot said about how employers have to cater to millennials. My response is always...uhhhh whaaat? Those and any other little Fokkers should fit into the way things are done now already. Wasn't it like that when you started your career? I don't recall having people falling over themselves to lick my nethers because I was the latest, greatest, newest-fangled Gen X cruising into the workplace. Nah mate, I had to cut my hair, adjust my attitude and knuckle down, or be on my way...Sure, and our company has double standards to accommodate them.
Patchelicious Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Gonna dive in here. I've written and seen a lot said about how employers have to cater to millennials. My response is always...uhhhh whaaat? Those and any other little Fokkers should fit into the way things are done now already. Wasn't it like that when you started your career? I don't recall having people falling over themselves to lick my nethers because I was the latest, greatest, newest-fangled Gen X cruising into the workplace. Nah mate, I had to cut my hair, adjust my attitude and knuckle down, or be on my way...Don’t conflate setting up a work cool work environment with that of licking somebody’s nuts. They are not the same thing. Only our old school ‘egos’ confuse those two. You are losing sight of the whole point. From your posts I assume you are in tech? In the tech world the best talent makes the company the most money. It’s more complicated than that (effectivity vs productivity etc), but that’s what it boils down too. If a flip flop wearing hot Dev gets better shareholder returns than an average “8-5 Ja baas” type dude, guess who is more valuable to the organization?
forkie Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 I agree if you are head hunted. So then it is all about what the company can offer you, or incentivise you. But when you made an application for an interview and it is only round one, perhaps a better question would be what perks form part of the package on offer. Not why they should work for us. They are offering their skills to us, not "our" skills to them. I selected your CV to come into the interview. So asking me to explain to them why they should come work for us, still leaves me dumbfounded.anybody whoi asks me about pay / perks in interview 1 will not get a second interview. However if you ask me about the culture and values of the company as well as how the company treats its employees you are guaranteed another interview. its all about "fit" and we ant to make sure that company and the individual are compatible
Slowbee Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Times are changing my man.... I actually popped my head in the clinic a few days ago to ask why I should come work there.Hopefully someone said no, but we will take your money.
Escapee.. Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Don’t conflate setting up a work cool work environment with that of licking somebody’s nuts. They are not the same thing. Only our old school ‘egos’ confuse those two. You are losing sight of the whole point. From your posts I assume you are in tech? In the tech world the best talent makes the company the most money. It’s more complicated than that (effectivity vs productivity etc), but that’s what it boils down too. If a flip flop wearing hot Dev gets better shareholder returns than an average “8-5 Ja baas” type dude, guess who is more valuable to the organization? Lot of people on this thread obviously missing out on this.
Escapee.. Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 anybody whoi asks me about pay / perks in interview 1 will not get a second interview. However if you ask me about the culture and values of the company as well as how the company treats its employees you are guaranteed another interview. its all about "fit" and we ant to make sure that company and the individual are compatible The question why should I work for you isnt always about money/perks.It usually has a lot to do with the culture and values of the company. Job satisfaction and loving/enjoying what you do is very important to the younger generation.
Gen Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Job satisfaction and loving/enjoying what you do is very important to the younger generation.At some point some of the younger generation will realise that earning a living isn't always enjoyable.
forkie Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 The question why should I work for you isnt always about money/perks.It usually has a lot to do with the culture and values of the company. Job satisfaction and loving/enjoying what you do is very important to the younger generation.Ed Zackery
forkie Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 At some point some of the younger generation will realise that earning a living isn't always enjoyable.yes - but why shouldnt it be? our generation just bent over while supplying the vaseline. I really take my hat off to the youngsters who are willing to question the status quo and improve it
Slowbee Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 It's almost like you view every applicant as a jobless person, desperate and hard-up for the position that offer the bare minimum, and that they should be just too thankful for even being granted an interview. That attitude also probably translates to others that the position will be a dead end one for them with little or no prospects of growth. Or at least that's how it comes across and with what I've seen before.I like this response Stef. So first let me say if it comes across as old fashioned boss type be gratefull for anything we give them, that is not the case. That is not the attitude that is behind the dumbfounded comment at all. It relates to the response of one individual, not all responses. Any interviewee should be thankful (maybe that is the wrong word), possibly for being granted an interview, in other words an opportunity to sell their skills. Is that not what a first round of interviews is about? Selling your skills? Once you have sold your skills and you can see the company wants those skills and there is a bit of synergy between you and the company then you can start the negotiation of what the company can do for you if they want your skill set. Or am I missing something? Forkie (post above) mentions company fit and verbalised it better than me.
The Ouzo Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 I think a lot has to do with the position you are in when being interviewed.When I was jobless I was just happy to get a job, but changing from one company to another I want to know that I'm moving to a better position (financially, environment wise, etc.), so then I'm going to ask the questions about why I should work for you. That way we can both stop waiting each others time if its not going to be mutually beneficial.Slavery was abolished many years ago, you want productivity then you need happy employees.
Slowbee Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 yes - but why shouldnt it be? our generation just bent over while supplying the vaseline. I really take my hat off to the youngsters who are willing to question the status quo and improve itprecisely ! Especially when the job application already outlines everything you already need to know (other than the company fit you mention)
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