Sram Level Ultimate vs Shimano XTR

[SCD]

I had XTs for a good while and then Levels (180 rotors in front and 160mm rear). A few thousand km on both setups. The XTs develop power early and fast, just as Droo said. Levels are smoother. For me both had enough power for my riding (trail, 120mm fork, point and shoot). The XTs could get squishy when really hot. But I rarely got to that stage. And then you could pump them and regain power. Wasn't a big deal for me. The first edition of the Levels had an issue with a piston spacer that made the piston get stuck in hot weather. Sram serviced those at no cost. And I believe that the current Levels have updated internals.

What I like a lot more with the Levels is that they can be serviced (lever, seals, etc). When I had a seal issue on my XTs the response was that I must buy a new caliper. Not sure if this is still the case. 

Then lastly, both brakes integrate nicely with the respective other group set parts. My Sram setup is delivering a nice and clean cockpit. 

A comes down a lot to preference. Especially the ride feel. Both are great brakes.

[DieselnDust]

I think the whole SRAM / Shimano brake preference is dictated mainly by what people start out riding. Personally I think Shimano make awful brakes, but they're so in charge of the low to mid range OEM market that most people start on them.

 

Levels have a fair bit more power and modulation than the XTR - and you can get spares if the piston seizes or you crash and break a lever blade. Shimano just feel sharper because all the power comes on at the beginning of the lever stroke.

 

The problem is the difference between the two is so big that you can't just fit the other one to see how it feels - you've actually got to ride both pretty extensively before you can work out which one you prefer, so people just tend to stick with what they know.

 

(That said, I know people who have been through the whole process properly and still like Shimano, so maybe I'm just weird.)

Bingo!

Add to that Shimano brakes feel great on the shop floor. Pull the lever and they feel stiff and solid whereas SRAM feels softer.

That difference in feel is purely down to Shimano using a falling rate leverage and sram uses a rising rate leverage. So as droo says the Shimano brakes hit full power almost immediately (discribed as poor modulation) and sram builds power as you pull the lever further.

 

The lever shape of sram is also nicer to me and they have a much wider performance envelope in terms of fade during long descents.

 

Technicall, ddot brake fluid is better but requires more care when working with it. Hence some mechanics don't like the brake system because its dot. DOT fluid has a much higher reflux boiling point therefore safer.

 

So level or Guide gets my vote

Edited October 9, 2019 by DieselnDust

[MphatiPyga]

Go find someone with Formulae Curas and test them. The better of both worlds imho! SRAM has modulation and Shimano has instant power.

 

Thank me later!

Edited October 9, 2019 by MphatiPyga

[BaGearA]

You could prolly also get a set of hope race levers with x2 calipers for the price of level ultimates or xtr

 

And they're fully rebuild able and future proof for at least another 15 years

[Monark]

When and if the SRAM brakes work they are amazing... they suffer from sticky pistons and struggle with heat. Once the pistons refuse to retract they bind. If you want reliable fit and forget brakes - then go shimano.

[keithbe]

Don't confuse modulation with "squishy". Shimano don't modulate; they bite; from Saints to XTR.

[droo]

if you want brakes that are better than both and much lighter than both, Trickstuff.  Not cheap, not even in the same hemisphere as cheap.

 

I like my level ultimates, I love my TS piccolas

 

TS are a whole other thing, and if you have the budget you probably should at least try them once.

[MORNE]

i modulate with my finger. don't confuse squish for modulation lol  the less brakes you have at a certain level of pull...the more you will pull.... = modulation with sram haha

anyway...buy what you like. Who cares

Edited October 9, 2019 by morneS555

[DieselnDust]

Squishy? SRAM isn't squishy. What you feel is lever flex as you apply more pressure. You would be well over the bars if you pulled the brake lever that hard out on the trail.

Shimano doesn't produce as much pressure and it's peak pressure comes in almost immediately before it falls away.

 

SRAM unreliable? Yikes is avid juicy issues from 12 years ago still the reference point? I've had plenty SRAM brakes and all worked reliably and delivered a lot of braking power. Seal rollback issues are caused by people using brake cleaner in a Dot system. Seal swell results. It's a user induced problem.

[MORNE]

Squishy? SRAM isn't squishy. What you feel is lever flex as you apply more pressure. You would be well over the bars if you pulled the brake lever that hard out on the trail.

Shimano doesn't produce as much pressure and it's peak pressure comes in almost immediately before it falls away.

 

SRAM unreliable? Yikes is avid juicy issues from 12 years ago still the reference point? I've had plenty SRAM brakes and all worked reliably and delivered a lot of braking power. Seal rollback issues are caused by people using brake cleaner in a Dot system. Seal swell results. It's a user induced problem.

i like how you call people out to be "Shimano-philes" in other threads but you religiously preach sram lol. Double standards much? anyway...again...i don't care...i'm just the oil to your water

Edited October 9, 2019 by morneS555

[DieselnDust]

i like how you call people out to be "Shimano-philes" in other threads but you religiously preach sram lol. Double standards much? anyway...again...i don't care...i'm just the oil to your water

 

Did I say Shimano builds bad brakes?

I am saying that sram builds great brakes and why they are different to Shimano. Also illustrating where the problems arise. If that makes me a sramophile then I'll stitch the badge to my shirt.

I've used Hope, formula, Shimano SRAM and magura. All are very good and different to the other. That's how company's differentiate their product for marketing purposes.

 

I don't chose brakes from a lever pull in the bike shop or from a parking lot test. I test ride.

from my experience SRAM is every bit as good as the others and they have designed in features that are technically better from an engineering perspective.

 

Yours sincerely

sramophile brakile

[Markellis]

What does a set of Hope's cost?

 

I understand there obviously different models but for somebody who does marathon and a few stage races?

Edited October 9, 2019 by Markellis

[MORNE]

What does a set of Hope's cost?

 

I understand there obviously different models but for somebody who does marathon and a few stage races?

5k ish for the X2 set...maybe less around black friday (as per last year)

[BaGearA]

What does a set of Hope's cost?

I understand there obviously different models but for somebody who does marathon and a few stage races?

You'll need the "tech race x2" set

 

Features bite point (true bite point) and reach adjustment just not tool free, I think you need 2mm or 2.5mm hex

[DieselnDust]

What does a set of Hope's cost?

 

I understand there obviously different models but for somebody who does marathon and a few stage races?

 

 

what is your all up rider and bike weight?

If over 90Kg you may want to consider the Race Evo E4 or the Tech 3 E4

 

If under 90Kg for all up weight then the Race Evo X2 or Tech X2 should suffice.

Edited October 9, 2019 by DieselnDust

[BMXER]

XTR all the way.

 

Sram is agricultural.

 

 

Ridden and owned both, XTR is way smoother and offers better ergonomics for my paws.