Poor service from LBS - what to do?

[eddy]

Its called 4th industrial revolution. With the barriers of entry removed by TCP/IP its easier than ever to buy stuff from anyone anywhere. Everything is becoming open- even banks and their payment rails. Businesses must learn that they have to digitise or risk going out of business. Best example is Kodak vs Amazon book store. Both non IT companies. Amazon chose to digitise, Kodak not.

It will be sad that some business owners do not see the light as they will go out of business. The once who do see the light will become great!

This whole digitisation business and strategising to take advantage of 4th industrial revolution is what pays for my bike and the stupid expensive service I had to pay.

Part of life

I am in awe of the 4th industrial revolution and the benefits of digitization.

 

As this thread is about servicing, can you recommend an App I can use to fit my new crank and one to service my SID ?

[boesman88]

But we have as many threads where people would rather import a part directly to safe a few hundred rands ... and then shop about for the shop that would fit it at the lowest rate ....

 

Guess I should have been more explicit ito the sub point I was responding to

[boesman88]

Congrats on completely missing the point.

 

His point was that we import things (which cuts away at bike shop margins) and then people refuse to pay the hourly rate for a true specialist to work on their bikes (so you get some unqualified idiot working on your bike) and then people bitch about the quality of the service. For example, an Associate attorney at a large firm (i.e. 3 years of experience up) will charge out at around R1500 per hour. Would you be willing to pay that per hour for a bike service?

 

The saying "If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys" comes to mind.

I got his point perfectly. You clearly missed mine.

 

You are measuring modern business models (buy online) with old business models (bike shop with mechanic). The bike shop’s business model (and pricing structures) is outdated as he makes his money from putting a margin on goods and services he sells through his shop. If people are buying online from ChainReactionCycles.com his one revenue stream dries up. No one will pay R1500 an hour for his ‘normal’ mechanic’s time which is what he will have to charge to survive given the above, right?

 

There are opportunities to disrupt these old business models... imagine if the same shop guy carries minimum, but quality and the latest stock on display (lower need for working capital), digitise his business by becoming the one that people buy online from and delivers excellent, rapid door to door service - hence increasing his client base beyond the few feet that walks into his shop to a broader online community. This increases profits and he can afford to improve his mechanics’ skills and deliver better technical services at reasonable prices (cross subsidize potentially). or he shunt the technical service and leave it to the okes that know what they are doing and he focuses on becoming the bicycle’s version of Amazon.

 

Alternatively he can count peanuts and monkeys and go extinct like Kodak

 

Its how you look at the problem

[boesman88]

I am in awe of the 4th industrial revolution and the benefits of digitization.

 

As this thread is about servicing, can you recommend an App I can use to fit my new crank and one to service my SID ?

Try this one https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bicycle-maintenance-guide/id1346371184

 

There should be an android equivalent if you prefer

[Rouxenator]

In my case I just try the next one, I have had both good service as well as shoddy service from the same shops. If one does not do something right I move on to the next one until they slip up with something.

 

Rinse and repeat.

[MORNE]

Bikeshops build my wheels, service a fork or if i'm REALLY lazy...press a headset because i wont gooi 3k for a tool. Most places will do a headset for you for free if you ask nicely and it literally takes 2 minutes.

 

The rest is NOT rocket science if you are vaguely handy. it is a bicycle.

[Eddy Gordo]

I got his point perfectly. You clearly missed mine.

 

You are measuring modern business models (buy online) with old business models (bike shop with mechanic). The bike shop’s business model (and pricing structures) is outdated as he makes his money from putting a margin on goods and services he sells through his shop. If people are buying online from ChainReactionCycles.com his one revenue stream dries up. No one will pay R1500 an hour for his ‘normal’ mechanic’s time which is what he will have to charge to survive given the above, right?

 

There are opportunities to disrupt these old business models... imagine if the same shop guy carries minimum, but quality and the latest stock on display (lower need for working capital), digitise his business by becoming the one that people buy online from and delivers excellent, rapid door to door service - hence increasing his client base beyond the few feet that walks into his shop to a broader online community. This increases profits and he can afford to improve his mechanics’ skills and deliver better technical services at reasonable prices (cross subsidize potentially). or he shunt the technical service and leave it to the okes that know what they are doing and he focuses on becoming the bicycle’s version of Amazon.

 

Alternatively he can count peanuts and monkeys and go extinct like Kodak

 

Its how you look at the problem

Problem is that distributors/ suppliers want physical shops with a workshop. No opportunity for someone to operate online if you dont have a physical store. Hence lots of business is lost to online sales on overseas sites. 

[Jehosefat]

I got his point perfectly. You clearly missed mine.

 

You are measuring modern business models (buy online) with old business models (bike shop with mechanic). The bike shop’s business model (and pricing structures) is outdated as he makes his money from putting a margin on goods and services he sells through his shop. If people are buying online from ChainReactionCycles.com his one revenue stream dries up. No one will pay R1500 an hour for his ‘normal’ mechanic’s time which is what he will have to charge to survive given the above, right?

 

There are opportunities to disrupt these old business models... imagine if the same shop guy carries minimum, but quality and the latest stock on display (lower need for working capital), digitise his business by becoming the one that people buy online from and delivers excellent, rapid door to door service - hence increasing his client base beyond the few feet that walks into his shop to a broader online community. This increases profits and he can afford to improve his mechanics’ skills and deliver better technical services at reasonable prices (cross subsidize potentially). or he shunt the technical service and leave it to the okes that know what they are doing and he focuses on becoming the bicycle’s version of Amazon.

 

Alternatively he can count peanuts and monkeys and go extinct like Kodak

 

Its how you look at the problem

 

You're still missing the point. His point was that if you want high-quality, professional mechanics you must be willing to pay "high-quality, professional" level fees. Especially considering the fact that floor sales of components can no longer be used to cross-subsidise the workshop portion of the business given that people are purchasing online rather than in store.

 

Your point about the shop moving to become an online store is a valid but somewhat limited one. Personally I don't think there is sufficient market for every single LBS to have an effective online shop and even if it increases the audience, that still does not necessarily impact the number of people who will use the workshop (which is what this entire discussion is about) mostly because almost no-one will ship there bike to another city just for a service.

 

Closing down the workshop and just focusing on the sales like you suggest doesn't solve the problem at all (the problem here being poor technical skills from the shop mechanics before you miss it again).

[boesman88]

You're still missing the point. His point was that if you want high-quality, professional mechanics you must be willing to pay "high-quality, professional" level fees. Especially considering the fact that floor sales of components can no longer be used to cross-subsidise the workshop portion of the business given that people are purchasing online rather than in store.

 

Your point about the shop moving to become an online store is a valid but somewhat limited one. Personally I don't think there is sufficient market for every single LBS to have an effective online shop and even if it increases the audience, that still does not necessarily impact the number of people who will use the workshop (which is what this entire discussion is about) mostly because almost no-one will ship there bike to another city just for a service.

 

Closing down the workshop and just focusing on the sales like you suggest doesn't solve the problem at all (the problem here being poor technical skills from the shop mechanics before you miss it again).

Its how you see it.

[BigDL]

I have a number of different bike shops that I like to use. My MTB is currently in for a fork and shock service at a tiny shop with an owner who does all the work himself. He knows my bike, knows how I ride, knows my expectations and backs up his service if there are any issues. Aside from parts, servicing my MTB costs pretty much the same as servicing our car. I am happy to pay it. In fact I normally keep a positive balance with him, which I add to by PayPal when I have a few bucks spare, and he just deducts whatever he does off the balance. When I have something big that needs to be bought and he can’t source the part at a competitive price, he sends me up the road to chain reaction to get the part and he fits it. Normally I source parts from him if I can though and pay a wee bit more than from CRC etc, but that’s fair.

 

100 yards or so away is another bike shop that builds high end custom bikes and is also a trek dealer. Any work that needs doing on my road bike, they do. They also charge a fair whack per hour, which I pay with a smile, although my road bike doesn’t usually need a lot of work.

 

The flip side of paying a decent hourly rate is that I know that my bikes are well looked after and I have a good relationship with the guys who work on them. As an example, when I ordered my new trek bike this week, the guys booked me in for a full rethul bike for, free of charge, when the bike arrives.

 

Swings and roundabouts

[piotter]

I'm going to go with you're still missing his point...

What a company has to do going into the 4th IR and their margins on products/services are not the point.

People wanting to pay for a high school graduate but expecting the knowledge and expertise of an engineer with a masters degree and at least 10 years of experience is the point.

 

 

I got his point perfectly. You clearly missed mine.

You are measuring modern business models (buy online) with old business models (bike shop with mechanic). The bike shop’s business model (and pricing structures) is outdated as he makes his money from putting a margin on goods and services he sells through his shop. If people are buying online from ChainReactionCycles.com his one revenue stream dries up. No one will pay R1500 an hour for his ‘normal’ mechanic’s time which is what he will have to charge to survive given the above, right?

There are opportunities to disrupt these old business models... imagine if the same shop guy carries minimum, but quality and the latest stock on display (lower need for working capital), digitise his business by becoming the one that people buy online from and delivers excellent, rapid door to door service - hence increasing his client base beyond the few feet that walks into his shop to a broader online community. This increases profits and he can afford to improve his mechanics’ skills and deliver better technical services at reasonable prices (cross subsidize potentially). or he shunt the technical service and leave it to the okes that know what they are doing and he focuses on becoming the bicycle’s version of Amazon.

Alternatively he can count peanuts and monkeys and go extinct like Kodak

Its how you look at the problem

Edited October 31, 2019 by piotter

[boesman88]

I have a number of different bike shops that I like to use. My MTB is currently in for a fork and shock service at a tiny shop with an owner who does all the work himself. He knows my bike, knows how I ride, knows my expectations and backs up his service if there are any issues. Aside from parts, servicing my MTB costs pretty much the same as servicing our car. I am happy to pay it. In fact I normally keep a positive balance with him, which I add to by PayPal when I have a few bucks spare, and he just deducts whatever he does off the balance. When I have something big that needs to be bought and he can’t source the part at a competitive price, he sends me up the road to chain reaction to get the part and he fits it. Normally I source parts from him if I can though and pay a wee bit more than from CRC etc, but that’s fair.

 

100 yards or so away is another bike shop that builds high end custom bikes and is also a trek dealer. Any work that needs doing on my road bike, they do. They also charge a fair whack per hour, which I pay with a smile, although my road bike doesn’t usually need a lot of work.

 

The flip side of paying a decent hourly rate is that I know that my bikes are well looked after and I have a good relationship with the guys who work on them. As an example, when I ordered my new trek bike this week, the guys booked me in for a full rethul bike for, free of charge, when the bike arrives.

 

Swings and roundabouts

I’m assuming you’re not local. In SA we have also adopted this technology- you pay pal! - regardless of quality of service ???? on a serious note I think I am sometimes too lenient on service providers and should demand basic proper service - not miracles, just basics. Like some else said - vote with your wallet

[Pieter1]

Try this one https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bicycle-maintenance-guide/id1346371184

 

There should be an android equivalent if you prefer

Neeto burrito! Have you got the app? Do they do mtb stuff or is it just road bikes?

[Rouxenator]

I actually had an experience inline with this today. I got in touch with 4 LBS for crown race / headset base spacer and each and everyone of them came back to me with some sort of BS answer.

 

I already ordered the part off ebay was looking for one I'll get my hands on sooner. Made a post here on bikehub, got a link to an online seller bought what I needed - get's delivered tomorrow. 

[boesman88]

Neeto burrito! Have you got the app? Do they do mtb stuff or is it just road bikes?

Just roadbikes. There are ones that covers both like https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bike-repair/id382006079

 

Depending on what you need to do there are great tech resources such as GCN/GMBN, Manufacturers videos such as this one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6wCt9BJRNew etc

 

If you like books- try this: https://bikemob.co.za/products/parktoolbigbluebookofbicyclerepair4thedition?variant=30986473504853&currency=ZAR&utm_campaign=gs-2018-09-04&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1IXh0oHH5QIVB7TtCh1J2AtSEAQYASABEgJGvvD_BwE

 

This is the 101 of wheels: https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Wheel-3rd-Jobst-Brandt/dp/0960723668

 

This is also a good free online source: https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help

[Pieter1]

Just roadbikes. There are ones that covers both like https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bike-repair/id382006079

 

Depending on what you need to do there are great tech resources such as GCN/GMBN, Manufacturers videos such as this one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6wCt9BJRNew etc

 

If you like books- try this: https://bikemob.co.za/products/parktoolbigbluebookofbicyclerepair4thedition?variant=30986473504853&currency=ZAR&utm_campaign=gs-2018-09-04&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1IXh0oHH5QIVB7TtCh1J2AtSEAQYASABEgJGvvD_BwE

 

This is the 101 of wheels: https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Wheel-3rd-Jobst-Brandt/dp/0960723668

 

This is also a good free online source: https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help

Awesome man thanks!