Are Hardtails dead?

[Hairy]

Have to say this weekend at Jonkershoek I felt a little under biked on my HT on some parts. Given I was the only HT between the trail bikes 3 Trek EX and a Spez Stumpy.

But when it came to round 2 back to the top I was smiling.

But trying to "race" the others is fun and makes your rear go like a rabbits nose.

If I recall your HT is more XC focused .... have you given a more trail orientated HT a spin yet .... these things can still hammer on a DH trail!

[CAAD4]

I work, a bike shop in USA, I can assure you they aren't dead. Is the most popular bike still, some have comeback to hardtails. Most full bikes are cheap in quality or really heavy for the money. To be honest very few people really need a full. But I sell whatever the customer needs or wants.

 

I only ride hardtails, I like them can do what I need and keep me sharp.

Welcome

Do you guys sell any exotic, or less commonly seen brands, or any recent beauties that you have built?

[Hairy]

I work, a bike shop in USA, I can assure you they aren't dead. Is the most popular bike still, some have comeback to hardtails. Most full bikes are cheap in quality or really heavy for the money. To be honest very few people really need a full. But I sell whatever the customer needs or wants. 

 

I only ride hardtails, I like them can do what I need and keep me sharp.

Are you selling more trail or XC hardtails, what sort of spec (decent forks and wheels) are the most sold bikes coming with, and out of interest what are your local trails like?

 

I imagine in the USA you have a better range of decent hardtails vs us in SA where most bikes are duallies, and very XC and marathon focused .... though saying that, trail and enduro has certainly taken traction over here the last year or two, but still nothing compared to our XC and marathon bikes.

[Me rida my bicycle]

If I recall your HT is more XC focused .... have you given a more trail orientated HT a spin yet .... these things can still hammer on a DH trail!

yes it's a Scale with little love to make her even more fun on the trails.

A 120mm fork is what I am looking for, would bring the H/A to 68 and with the dropper and fat rubber she will still be well under 11kg.

Thing is our Ave rides are 50-70km 1200-1800m elevation and the Scale is comfy and even makes my big size fast up the hills and keep up with my riding partners.

Around D'ville our usual trails where I know the trails she is great but obviously not knowing what's coming and you can't just smash through things like on dualies it gets a bit tricky.

 

PS : at least I didn't do this ????????

[Dirt Tracker]

So here is a question. What is considered to be a good head angle (okay I know a bike is the sum of it’s parts but it’s a good start) for a HT.

 

There are a lot of longer / slacker HTs about but if you look at the Momsen steel it’s ‘longer slacker’ is about 69 degrees, the big wig is 68 and quite a few new frames sit in that 67 / 69 range.

 

I think that a 66 / 67 is a good start for a trail bike an 67 is almost a magic point for ‘fun’ bikes. You have to work hard as a frame designer to be good around 64 degrees.

[Hairy]

My mindset is that a HT should be slacker than a comparative travel duallie.

 

A duallie under sag and compression will see the head angle and seat angle remaining reasonably constant with eachother.

 

A HT sees the HA steepen drastically under sag and compression with the seat angle also steepening.

 

My Dartmoor Hornet had a head angle of 65deg with a 160mm fork, and she was certainly not a pig on tighter trails, or felt cumbersome in any way.

[VeloRacer]

i went from a Scott Spark dual susser back to a hardtail.

 

Hardtail seems sharper and more responsive.

 

I realised the dual susser made me lazy.

[Rigardt@Scott]

My mindset is that a HT should be slacker than a comparative travel duallie.

 

A duallie under sag and compression will see the head angle and seat angle remaining reasonably constant with eachother.

 

A HT sees the HA steepen drastically under sag and compression with the seat angle also steepening.

 

My Dartmoor Hornet had a head angle of 65deg with a 160mm fork, and she was certainly not a pig on tighter trails, or felt cumbersome in any way.

Same thinking here.

 

Mine sits at a hair over 65° with 150mm travel. I find it's as capable a climber as my much steeper HA dual suspension XC bike, but snappier and much more capable on the descents.

 

Where I often feel undergunned is fast rocky stuff. That just kills my kidneys, back, and everything else. Slow and steep tech, fast flowy stuff are both super fun on the HT. But my take - when I go to Jonkershoek I take the long travel enduro bike. I was there with the HT two weekends ago and was very quickly reminded why I told myseld I'd never do it again the previous time.

 

I find myself riding the hardtail lots on mellower stuff then I slowly get into the mindset of how a trail hardtail is the only bike I'll ever need. Then I take it somewhere like Jonkers and am very quickly reminded that a HT is not an only bike - not for me anyway.

[Red Bird]

Same thinking here.

 

Mine sits at a hair over 65° with 150mm travel. I find it's as capable a climber as my much steeper HA dual suspension XC bike, but snappier and much more capable on the descents.

 

Where I often feel undergunned is fast rocky stuff. That just kills my kidneys, back, and everything else. Slow and steep tech, fast flowy stuff are both super fun on the HT. But my take - when I go to Jonkershoek I take the long travel enduro bike. I was there with the HT two weekends ago and was very quickly reminded why I told myseld I'd never do it again the previous time.

 

I find myself riding the hardtail lots on mellower stuff then I slowly get into the mindset of how a trail hardtail is the only bike I'll ever need. Then I take it somewhere like Jonkers and am very quickly reminded that a HT is not an only bike - not for me anyway.

Agree. For me, Neverending Story is fine on HT but some Armageddon sections are horrible on the HT.

[Jewbacca]

I will weigh in and say Jonkers trails on a HT are one of my favourite things. There are some guys who do it way better than me too.

 

With regards the HA, my take is that on SA trails anything slacker than 66.5' is completely unnecessary.

 

I'm all about balance, so I expect me and my bike to be able to climb without feeling like we are ploughing a field or wading through a river, but still descend like I'm being chased by a pack of angry cheerleaders.

 

I hate trail side tea parties and all the unnecessary stopping that guys so often do when lugging their enduro rigs around.

 

Balance and upskill.... 

[Rigardt@Scott]

Agree. For me, Neverending Story is fine on HT but some Armageddon sections are horrible on the HT.

Yup - Neverending, Firehut, and Phoenix (when in good nic) can actually be more fun on a HT than dual sus. My fastest time top to bottom on Firehut is actually on my old Cotic Solaris...

 

Armageddon, Plumber, Iron Monkey all better on a dual suspension bike for me. That said, I am a bit more of a monster truck style rider than a float over things guy - I know of many guys that love those trails on a HT because their riding style suits it.

 

As for Status, I have not had the nuts to try that on a HT. A buddy of mine that did says it is no better or worse on his HT than dual sus - which kinda fits my theory that slow speed tech is fine on a HT.

[Headshot]

I will weigh in and say Jonkers trails on a HT are one of my favourite things. There are some guys who do it way better than me too.

 

With regards the HA, my take is that on SA trails anything slacker than 66.5' is completely unnecessary.

 

I'm all about balance, so I expect me and my bike to be able to climb without feeling like we are ploughing a field or wading through a river, but still descend like I'm being chased by a pack of angry cheerleaders.

 

I hate trail side tea parties and all the unnecessary stopping that guys so often do when lugging their enduro rigs around.

 

Balance and upskill.... 

Can't agree with you on the HTA, especially on a HT. Mine is 65 unloaded. Sit on the bike and it loses a degree or two because its a HT. A decent hardcore HT should have a 63 degree HTA. As for the steering on a climb, what about  "balance and upskill" for that too? 

[Hairy]

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-the-sounds-of-hardtail-shredding-in-pemberton.html

[BenGraham]

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-the-sounds-of-hardtail-shredding-in-pemberton.html

Stick that in you'll full sus carbon frame and smoke it.

[Me rida my bicycle]

OK maybe some thing wrong with me as I find Armageddon fun and easy on my HT, love Zululand and Firehut they are all fun and fast but the last 2 parts of never ending sucks on a HT to me.

[Red Bird]

OK maybe some thing wrong with me as I find Armageddon fun and easy on my HT, love Zululand and Firehut they are all fun and fast but the last 2 parts of never ending sucks on a HT to me.

Only did one section of Armageddon. Would love to go back and try the rest. Stuck in Gauteng though. Could be the 100mm fork that was pumped 10psi too hard? When I was in CT earlier this year I couldn’t get enough of Jonkers. Went there 3 days in a row. Awesome awesome place.