So how much does the bike matter?

[Jewbacca]

I'm sure there are, but I wonder how "lesser' was determined. Maybe it was just the underdog who won because they had actually built a very good car? 

I'm sure Senna won a few races in an under specced car, especially in the wet.

 

Skill definitely got him onto the top step many times in under powered vehicles.

 

Schumacher..... (vroom...) was pretty successful in his Jordan-Ford, which was definitely not close to being up to spec.

 

But these days with automatic transmissions and the works it probably happens less...

[Quantum Theory]

I'm sure Senna won a few races in an under specced car, especially in the wet.

 

Skill definitely got him onto the top step many times in under powered vehicles.

 

Schumacher..... (vroom...) was pretty successful in his Jordan-Ford, which was definitely not close to being up to spec.

 

But these days with automatic transmissions and the works it probably happens less...

 

Senna moved to Williams in his last season, because they had a better car. Then a rule change outlawed electronic aids which made their car one of the worst and most dangerous in the field. He never won another race and ultimately died tragically in that car.

 

Anyway... as you were.

[Jewbacca]

Senna moved to Williams in his last season, because they had a better car. Then a rule change outlawed electronic aids which made their car one of the worst and most dangerous in the field. He never won another race and ultimately died tragically in that car.

 

Anyway... as you were.

Yes... I remember well.

 

BUT, his Lotus and his McLaren were definitely not always the best cars on the track but he found ways to get poles and win quite consistently.

[Duane_Bosch]

The car analogy is quite interesting and less valid IMO that say a moto GP or MX analogy. I've seen 2 interviews with Moto GP riders who dabbled in cars. Kevin Schwantz and Max Biaggi and they both said the same thing. On the bike your fluid body position plays a far larger role than in a car where you are pretty much static.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Duane_Bosch

[Ozzie NL]

I want to look at this the other way round:

 

for the road, the bike makes a huge difference (to a point) simple weight/resistances vs. power output - the curve is very flat at the top but steep at the bottom - 5k to 15k  (20kg to 8kg) will be huge 15K to 175k (8kg to 6.123kg) not so much.

 

For the mountain bikers - the bike makes a big difference - to how fast the rider can go - not should go. I think the expensive high tech dual sus allows an average rider to ride way to fast over stuff they should never go - on the other hand spending 100k on an epic is better spend on a 30k bike and 60k of diet/ trainer/ skills etc. 10k left for coffee and beer

20kg for a roadie???? Tractor tires???

[DieselnDust]

there are a number of cases in motorsport history where the driver in teh lesser car has won the race.

Senna in 91,92,93 rings a recent bell.

Schumacher in the Benetton Ford 91,92,93,, 94

 

Vettel in the torro rosso in 98

redbull in 2009 and 2010.

Max verstappen in the red bull in 2019

Danny ric in the redbull in 2014?

 

But let's no digress

[Headshot]

Senna moved to Williams in his last season, because they had a better car. Then a rule change outlawed electronic aids which made their car one of the worst and most dangerous in the field. He never won another race and ultimately died tragically in that car.

 

Anyway... as you were.

I recall watching the race -  on a very grainy SABC 2. Not great when your car kills you.

[Quantum Theory]

All I will say is that the bike helps (geometry, suspension curve etc), the setup (suspension, bike fit etc) is equally important and the rider skill, as well as fitness is the most important. Weight to me is not important at all, but probably helps when you're racing at the top.

 

So yes... everything matters... What was the question again?

['Dale]

If you are on a red bike you will never see what a black bike looks like, unless you are in the habit of looking over your shoulder at those riders following behind you and encouraging them along!

Touchè

[NickGM]

If you are on a red bike you will never see what a black bike looks like, unless you are in the habit of looking over your shoulder at those riders following behind you and encouraging them along!

If are on a red bike and you look over your shoulder and see a black bike it means you're about to be lapped. 

[Shebeen]

I want to look at this the other way round:

 

for the road, the bike makes a huge difference (to a point) simple weight/resistances vs. power output - the curve is very flat at the top but steep at the bottom - 5k to 15k  (20kg to 8kg) will be huge 15K to 175k (8kg to 6.123kg) not so much.

 

For the mountain bikers - the bike makes a big difference - to how fast the rider can go - not should go. I think the expensive high tech dual sus allows an average rider to ride way to fast over stuff they should never go - on the other hand spending 100k on an epic is better spend on a 30k bike and 60k of diet/ trainer/ skills etc. 10k left for coffee and beer

dunno.

 

the right guy could win the argus on a R10k roadbike.

not sure you'd finish top 50 in the cape epic with a R10k nmountainbike

 

law of diminishing returns applies in both categories

[Nevermore]

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pinkbike-poll-how-much-does-the-bike-impact-racers-results.html#cid2499152

 

There seems to be a healthy belief out there that the bike matters rather a lot if you look at the poll results. I am in the other camp - if its the right class of bike for the job, got wheels, suspension and gears and a good fit the bike makes very little difference. ( so don't give Nino a 16kg enduro bike and expect him to win XC, or Maes a Scot Spark...) It's all about the riders skill and fitness. Within reason of course....

 

 

Just to add, I think that in this country the belief that the bike is very important is probably even stronger...

 

 

Prove me wrong with facts or just express your opinion however misguided :-)

1st off, you're wrong, a few points :

 

- Most riders will never be on the level to understand what a difference it actually makes, 99% of riders go to a shop, pick up a heavy bike for 30k vs a light bike for 140k, and make a decision, they don't know ****..

 

- Let me inform you, and remember this. There is a huge difference between body weight and rotational weight, so 2 riders exact same weight, one loses 2kg’s of belly fat and the other one loses 2kg’s on his bike, wheels ect ect.. Do I need to explain to you who will see the biggest improvement? I hope the intraweb and all members familiarize them selfs with point nr 2.

 

-i will say this, with mtb’s it makes less of a difference than road bikes, example:

 

Lets say you riding your tommasini plaas hek with your 10mm mavic wheels vs a guy with a Bianchi XR4 and Bora Ultra 50mm’s, both pushing exactly 270 watts, the guy with the XR4 is gonna pull away from you like your youth. Luckily after reading this you at least know why. Its my pleasure.

[Skubarra]

Lets say you riding your tommasini plaas hek with your 10mm mavic wheels vs a guy with a Bianchi XR4 and Bora Ultra 50mm’s, both pushing exactly 270 watts, the guy with the XR4 is gonna pull away from you like your youth. Luckily after reading this you at least know why. Its my pleasure.

 

Not really arguing on this with you, but due to the nature of road cycling you will rarely be in this kind of situation (ignoring TT's). Most likely you will spend 90% of your time drafting in the group saving energy and only need short bursts of full pace.

 

So unless mister XR4 is more than 25% faster than my plaashek I will simply draft him till he tires. On the day tactics & good bunch riding skills play a far bigger role than bike specs, which is why I think in road racing you can get away with riding a low specced bike to a much bigger extent than mtb'ing.

[Nevermore]

Strategically you're absolutely right.. however, I am addressing OP’s perception regarding the role of weight in bikes & cycling

[Wimmas]

The problem I believe with many of us South African men is that we suffer from CUD (Compulsive Upgrade Disorder). For the average Joe, at the end of the day, the best bike is probably the one on which is you are most comfortable and confident, and which is set up correctly so you don't get back pain after a 10km ride or suffer any other ailments.

 

Here are examples:

 

Besides biking, I have an interest in PC's and golf. I have spent around R35k on my PC and around R15k on my golf clubs. Even after spending all of this and my gear being more than capable of doing what it is supposed to, and properly, I always want to upgrade something, just because!

 

We are enticed by the latest and greatest, and if someone you know has it or the internet tells you it is better, your mind tells you you need it.

 

When you see a beautiful woman, you think with the wrong head. Same applies to "I need that 1x12 groupset upgrade", while your 2x11 is actually fine and still relevant.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Wimmas

[Headshot]

1st off, you're wrong, a few points :

 

- Most riders will never be on the level to understand what a difference it actually makes, 99% of riders go to a shop, pick up a heavy bike for 30k vs a light bike for 140k, and make a decision, they don't know ****..

 

- Let me inform you, and remember this. There is a huge difference between body weight and rotational weight, so 2 riders exact same weight, one loses 2kg’s of belly fat and the other one loses 2kg’s on his bike, wheels ect ect.. Do I need to explain to you who will see the biggest improvement? I hope the intraweb and all members familiarize them selfs with point nr 2.

 

-i will say this, with mtb’s it makes less of a difference than road bikes, example:

 

Lets say you riding your tommasini plaas hek with your 10mm mavic wheels vs a guy with a Bianchi XR4 and Bora Ultra 50mm’s, both pushing exactly 270 watts, the guy with the XR4 is gonna pull away from you like your youth. Luckily after reading this you at least know why. Its my pleasure.

Sounds like you know your *** .