How often do you use your lockouts?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Um... How does your saddle height change with your lockout?

Your seat tube angle changes, which means you're less "over" the pedals (your weight moves rearward and your horizontal saddle-to-bb measurement increases) with minimal change to the front end's position. 

[JohanDiv]

Um... How does your saddle height change with your lockout?

 

Note the " " for the lack of an better explanation? Not completely the same effect as literally dropping the saddle with 1-2cm, but the effect can still be felt over long distances. Pedals to saddle distance might not change but the angle definitely does and also saddle to handlebars position. Subtle changes that feels exaggerated on a fatigued body.  

[Jbr]

Interesting that you say the shapeshifter helps a lot. I've found that the biggest thing it helps with is to stop the front wheel wandering around so much on steep climbs more so than the slightly firmer rear suspension. That said I do treat it like a "proper enduro bike" and basically hit a chilled granny gear up most non-technical climbs 

I didn't say it helps a lot, I said it makes quite a difference  My XC bike still feels like an Ebike compaired to my strive 

 

I often forget to put it on, but when I remember halfway up the climb, I do feel a big difference in terms of bobbing.

I'd need to try to time myself with and without it, but I do believe it makes a difference. The first few times I used it the bike felt like a damn anvil compaired to my XC bike (which it is on the climbs), but after I took some time to set the shapeshifter properly, I did feel better on the climbs, not sure if it's all in my head, if it's some kind of rationalising to justify spending all that money or if it's actually helping    

I would assume if Canyon has been working on it for so long, there's a reason.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Jbr

[bertusras]

I don't bother anymore...forgetting to lock out your shock/fork going up is way more forgiving than forgetting to open it on the way down

 

All. The. Time!

[Red Bird]

I don’t use the lock-out. Have a Fox fork with an extra token inside so it doesn’t bob around much, but absorbs plenty when needed. Can’t feel the difference between half open and fully open. Don’t even have a remote.

[Hairy]

The climb switch on my shock is my best friend on extended climbs ... never lock it out though.

 

A good few bikes back I used to have a Scott RC, and on that bike I found I used to use the open/trail/lockout function frequently due to it being so easy to use.

 

Very very very rarely do I ever lock out my fork.

[Hairy]

Um... How does your saddle height change with your lockout?

not really the saddle height changing vs the bike sitting less in the sag and therefore "increasing" the effective seat angle. ... I can most certainly feel this on my bike (non Scott) when in the pedal model, and even more so in the lock out mode, you end up sitting more forward than over the back of your pedals

 

I know I explained this poorly

[arendoog]

I lock front and rear when stand pedaling for long climbs .Can only do it on my RM element .On my other bike i actually mis it ,so i tend to pump the suspension harder on that one or use another riding style .The problem is forgetting to unlock on the descents 

[Dry Biltong]

use it on my tallboy many times, every ride. lock when climb and unlock when bombing downhill ! keeps me thinking and aware of what i'm riding.

[ChrisF]

Lots of comments about "forgetting to un-lock" it ....

 

 

With the Trek I would be half way up a hill, then only remember to lock it (TREK only had two settings).  Then on the down I will be mid air after the first bump when I realised that the suspension is still locked .... no way to take your hands off the bars to reach down to unlock it .... SCARY !!

 

 

This is when I started looking for a bike with a twin-lock system.

 

 

Turns out the Scott has three setting on its twin-lock:

 

OPEN - enjoy those down hills !

 

TRACTION - exactly what is says, just enough suspension movement that the rocks on Dorstberg becomes a non-issue, while you hardly bob at all.

 

LOCK - "Minimal movement" would probably be more correct, as you can not truly lock the suspension.  When riding tar from the home to the trails this setting really helps !!

 

 

and for those moments when you realise you forgot to open the suspension .... "click" of the thumb and get on with enjoying the trail !!

 

 

 

Think I used the twin lock more than the dropper seat post.

 

 

 

 

now to find out if the Giant Meastro suspension is as good as its hype .... minimal bob, without fiddling with the suspension ....

Edited February 24, 2020 by ChrisF

[sirmoun10goat]

On Joberg2sea the Pyga guys have daily talks about bikes, set ups, suspension. Pat described lock outs, brains, etc as a cure for problems that should not be there, and then went further into why he believed this.

 

One noticeable point was that they set the Stages up with 30% sag, whereas most other manufacturers work on a 10-20%. Most people feel/think the suspension is there to absorb a bump, but it is also there for when there is a sudden dip/drop, and allows the wheel to be pushed down into the dip/drop to maintain traction. Their design philosophy is around a predetermined amount of sag. Locking suspension out goes against how the frame was designed.

 

Maybe it was a case of BBB, but I really bought into the Pyga claims. I do understand there are times when you may want to lock out, most notable when riding on tar and there are minimal bumps and ruts.

 

I think it was Mattys who did timed comparisons on his Stage up Spionkop, with suspension locked and open, and I believe the times were basically identical.I know this is just a single climb, but it is a good test as there are sections where you get out you saddle and mash it, so if there was excessive bob due to open suspension, this climb would definitely reveal this.

[Kranswurm]

I use mine all the time, on my 3rd bike with remote lockout so very used to it, very seldom go fully locked, there are like 1 or 2 hills where I will bother, otherwise its pretty much traction or decent.

Yep me too...bit stupid standing on a climb and bouncing up and down on your fork

[DieselnDust]

not really the saddle height changing vs the bike sitting less in the sag and therefore "increasing" the effective seat angle. ... I can most certainly feel this on my bike (non Scott) when in the pedal model, and even more so in the lock out mode, you end up sitting more forward than over the back of your pedals

 

I know I explained this poorly

Actually spot on maybe just not the appropriate terminology.

When climbing up hills bikes with linger travel sit deeper into the shock travel. This is squat chain tension often provides anti squat through the suspension kinematics. Lock outs help these and even shorter travel bikes in that it eliminates the squat. Fully Locked out is generally the point where the chain tension is pulling the rear wheel hardest toward the ground maximizing traction . Of you you lose a bit with the wheel not following the terrain but it’s better than an ever increasing rear ward moment that tends to lift the front wheel. With many long travel bikes mid travel is where they most supple so you want to avoid climbing in that condition

[coppi]

My Norco has intelligent front shock and I don’t bother with adjusting the rear manually either.........rather use the free space on the bars for a dropper post control!

[Vetseun]

The only lockout I know is the one I get when I come home at 3am.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Vetseun

[Kranswurm]

The only lockout I know is the one I get when I come home at 3am.

Ya ya ..fast asleep by 9 and that is that