Motorists vs Cyclists.... again

[ChrisF]

43 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

So sick of this ****. This is the problem. What entitlement is there with drivers and free flowing traffic??

Are  you serious, when you sit in traffic in your car and not free flowing, you dont ram the car in front of you! 

A cyclist is part of the traffic, if you cannot pass safely, then you dont pass. 

This right here is the root of the problem of terrible drivers.

I hope you drive better than this, as this is poor. 

Cyclists dont need educating, riding along a road, the d1ck in a car does not want to be slowed down so will pass when illegal to do so, then stop with the other plonkers in cars 100m ahead while the cyclists breeze past.

Do better

 

Just as we thought some sense was coming to this thread .... 

 

Then again ... NO SURPRISE .... your post lives up to your group photos "owning the road".  You are very clear on your view point.

 

NO PROBLEM with a "lone cyclist", none what so ever.

 

As for slow moving road blocks  ....  If I was to agree with you, then we would both be wrong. 

 

 

Stay safe, and enjoy rides.

 

 

 

[ChrisF]

23 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Being "on the clock is not an excuse for breaking the law. Its still the drivers responsibility to manage his schedule. Blaming others for being slower is ot an excuse to put their lives in danger.

You ARE correct.  (and I DONT pass until it is safe to do so)

 

FACT is that many driver DO take risks to get past groups of cyclists .... the end result to cyclists are simply not worth it.

 

 

[ChrisF]

27 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

 Are you suggesting that a greater number of cyclists behaving more considerately offers improved cyclist safety? If so, this is a fallacy when we don't know what the expectation of "more considerate" is. 

 

WHAT is the possible "negative" effect of cyclists "behaving more considerately" ?

 

[Patchelicious]

What this thread quite clearly illustrates is that there are entitled people on bicycles and and in cars who use the others behaviour to justify their own entitlement.

Be more lekker, whether that is in a car or on your bike, society will be better for it. 

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, ChrisF said:

 

WHAT is the possible "negative" effect of cyclists "behaving more considerately" ?

 

still doesn't solve the problem. All that energy is to managing  a subjective behaviour.

"Considerate" is subjective. What is the standard that needs to be adhered to?

[Pure Savage]

1 hour ago, ChrisF said:

 

WHAT is the possible "negative" effect of cyclists "behaving more considerately" ?

 

You get run over and die.

[Pure Savage]

23 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

still doesn't solve the problem. All that energy is to managing  a subjective behaviour.

"Considerate" is subjective. What is the standard that needs to be adhered to?

Cyclists should not be on the roads at call and should just Zwift, then drivers dont have to think about anyone else. Cant kill someone that is not there.

[jackievs]

This battle will continue ... make sure that you as a cyclist drive carefully ESPECIALLY when approaching cyclists on the road!!!  And not like the frustrated accountants in their Fortuners racing through the Cradle! 

It starts with us!!! 

[Pure Savage]

1 hour ago, ChrisF said:

 

Just as we thought some sense was coming to this thread .... 

 

Then again ... NO SURPRISE .... your post lives up to your group photos "owning the road".  You are very clear on your view point.

 

NO PROBLEM with a "lone cyclist", none what so ever.

 

As for slow moving road blocks  ....  If I was to agree with you, then we would both be wrong. 

 

 

Stay safe, and enjoy rides.

 

 

 

Yes, if you dont "own the road" you get run over and die here in Cape Town. Obviously when it is safe to do so we move over, but when a car approaches a cyclist they dont think, is it safe to over take on this blind corner and they just carry on. When a car comes around that blind corner, they do not slow down or brake, they just move into the cyclist. 

If cars treated all cyclists like the other road users they are, we would not have to take the lane. 

[jackievs]

3 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

Cyclists should not be on the roads at call and should just Zwift, then drivers dont have to think about anyone else. Cant kill someone that is not there.

Beyond a response !!!

[Pure Savage]

Just now, jackievs said:

This battle will continue ... make sure that you as a cyclist drive carefully ESPECIALLY when approaching cyclists on the road!!!  And not like the frustrated accountants in their Fortuners racing through the Cradle! 

It starts with us!!! 

Cars that pass the closest have a stay wider of the rider sticker on the back!

[Paul]

1 hour ago, ChrisF said:

FACT is that many driver DO take risks to get past groups of cyclists .... the end result to cyclists are simply not worth it.

and the FACT is also that many drivers take risks to get past lone cyclists who's only "crime" was daring to ride on the road. 

If you are cycling next to someone, you will have drivers squeeze past you because "well f*** them they think they own the road". If you are cycling by yourself and staying as far left as possible, you will have drivers squeeze past you because "oh well there's a gap and I'm taking it." It doesn't matter. The attitude is I'm going to get from point A to point B as quickly as I can and I don't give a flying f*** who's in my way. That is the driving culture here. You can do all your riding by yourself and obey all the road rules and it will not change that.

I realized that after a few thousand kilometers bike touring in Europe. After cycling in some of the busiest city's like Paris and Berlin, then riding over the narrow mountain passes in the French Alps and Spanish Basque country. Drivers respect cyclists. They will sit behind you until it is safe to pass, no matter how long it takes. It took me a while to get used to this. The first few days I was extremely self conscious and it felt as though I was impeding the drivers stuck behind me in traffic, but after a while you get used to the fact that someone is not going to risk your life to save on a few seconds of drive time. In the mountains it is common courtesy to wave the drivers behind you through if you can see it is safe for them to pass and there are no oncoming cars around the corner. I am SURE there are exceptions to what I have just said and of course bad drivers are not something that is unique to South Africa, but once you have cycled in a few different places you are able get the full picture.

We can theorize for ages about why these things are the way they are, but I will say that the behavior of cyclists here is a small and insignificant part of it and it does not even come close to justifying the amount of abuse we are subjected to on our roads. 

PS: Take it easy on Mr. Pure Savage, I reckon you would feel the same if you were recently run over and left in a ditch on the side of the road.

[ChrisF]

4 minutes ago, Paul said:

and the FACT is also that many drivers take risks to get past lone cyclists who's only "crime" was daring to ride on the road. 

If you are cycling next to someone, you will have drivers squeeze past you because "well f*** them they think they own the road". If you are cycling by yourself and staying as far left as possible, you will have drivers squeeze past you because "oh well there's a gap and I'm taking it." It doesn't matter. The attitude is I'm going to get from point A to point B as quickly as I can and I don't give a flying f*** who's in my way. That is the driving culture here. You can do all your riding by yourself and obey all the road rules and it will not change that.

I realized that after a few thousand kilometers bike touring in Europe. After cycling in some of the busiest city's like Paris and Berlin, then riding over the narrow mountain passes in the French Alps and Spanish Basque country. Drivers respect cyclists. They will sit behind you until it is safe to pass, no matter how long it takes. It took me a while to get used to this. The first few days I was extremely self conscious and it felt as though I was impeding the drivers stuck behind me in traffic, but after a while you get used to the fact that someone is not going to risk your life to save on a few seconds of drive time. In the mountains it is common courtesy to wave the drivers behind you through if you can see it is safe for them to pass and there are no oncoming cars around the corner. I am SURE there are exceptions to what I have just said and of course bad drivers are not something that is unique to South Africa, but once you have cycled in a few different places you are able get the full picture.

We can theorize for ages about why these things are the way they are, but I will say that the behavior of cyclists here is a small and insignificant part of it and it does not even come close to justifying the amount of abuse we are subjected to on our roads. 

PS: Take it easy on Mr. Pure Savage, I reckon you would feel the same if you were recently run over and left in a ditch on the side of the road.

Mr PS was not taken out by a driver passing cyclists ... rather he was deliberately knocked off his bike, and then the broken bits stolen by people in the car (if I recall it correctly)

 

The irony is that I HAVE stopped my car to help a stranded PS rider get her bike sorted and back riding.

 

I most certainly am "on his side", as far as cyclist safety goes.

 

We only differ on ONE item .... the impact and perceived safety of multiple riders blocking traffic.

 

 

I have a nice photo at home of two riders on my home PC, not PS riders  , blocking the road from Sea Point direction Lundudno, the single lane section with parked cars ....  I was a single rider, staying left, each vehicle waiting their turn to pass me safely, not a single car endangered me .... 100m forward they got STUCK behind these two riders .... further along the road, out of town, and with the nice yellow lane the lady was riding in the middle of the yellow lane and the gent was riding IN the road, still blocking traffic.  NOW the car drivers got agitated, and started hooting.  There was NO reason for both of them to not ride in the yellow lane, and allow normal traffic flow.  THEN the fun started .... the lady could not climb the hill, and they slowed down, and slowed down .... so now how do I pass these two ....  eventually there was a gap in the traffic and I had to go to the far right of the road to actually pass these two ....

 

There IS a big difference between "owning the road" for a 100m to pass a parked bus safely, vs just "holding up traffic" .....

 

 

 

 

O-well, thats it from me for this episode of this topic .... see you all on the next thread in a few months. (not as if much new have been said on this re-run in any case)  

 

Till then, ENJOY your rides, and please stay safe

 

[Patchelicious]

32 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

Yes, if you dont "own the road" you get run over and die here in Cape Town. Obviously when it is safe to do so we move over, but when a car approaches a cyclist they dont think, is it safe to over take on this blind corner and they just carry on. When a car comes around that blind corner, they do not slow down or brake, they just move into the cyclist. 

If cars treated all cyclists like the other road users they are, we would not have to take the lane. 

Taking a lane in Bakoven to stop cars passing you on a blind corner, and acknowledging them, is riding defensively, and the acknowledgement of the car shows consideration. Few rational people will have a problem with this.

Riding into oncoming traffic to film a group riding 3 abreast for a social media post is not done for safety.

 

[Patchelicious]

7 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

There IS a big difference between "owning the road" for a 100m to pass a parked bus safely, vs just "holding up traffic" .....

[Pure Savage]

39 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

Mr PS was not taken out by a driver passing cyclists ... rather he was deliberately knocked off his bike, and then the broken bits stolen by people in the car (if I recall it correctly)

 

The irony is that I HAVE stopped my car to help a stranded PS rider get her bike sorted and back riding.

 

I most certainly am "on his side", as far as cyclist safety goes.

 

We only differ on ONE item .... the impact and perceived safety of multiple riders blocking traffic.

 

 

I have a nice photo at home of two riders on my home PC, not PS riders  , blocking the road from Sea Point direction Lundudno, the single lane section with parked cars ....  I was a single rider, staying left, each vehicle waiting their turn to pass me safely, not a single car endangered me .... 100m forward they got STUCK behind these two riders .... further along the road, out of town, and with the nice yellow lane the lady was riding in the middle of the yellow lane and the gent was riding IN the road, still blocking traffic.  NOW the car drivers got agitated, and started hooting.  There was NO reason for both of them to not ride in the yellow lane, and allow normal traffic flow.  THEN the fun started .... the lady could not climb the hill, and they slowed down, and slowed down .... so now how do I pass these two ....  eventually there was a gap in the traffic and I had to go to the far right of the road to actually pass these two ....

 

There IS a big difference between "owning the road" for a 100m to pass a parked bus safely, vs just "holding up traffic" .....

 

 

 

 

O-well, thats it from me for this episode of this topic .... see you all on the next thread in a few months. (not as if much new have been said on this re-run in any case)  

 

Till then, ENJOY your rides, and please stay safe

 

I have been run over by 2 drivers on their phones while commuting to work and been clipped by a driver who was over taking another car on a blind corner and had a car wing mirror clip me when it realised there was another car coming. So I have have come close to death while sitting single file on my own.

I have had no such issues while riding in large groups. 

Sorry, just a little worked up. 

Thank you for passing vulnerable road users safely.