Driver fined £1000 for passing cyclist who fell over

[Mamil]

36 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

 That's how change happens, small uncomfortable steps sort of like attaching jumper cables to the drivers nipples and flipping the switch randomly while cranking the voltage up and down

Ha ha... True story. In testing reinforcement schedules conditioning rats to press a lever to get a food pellet the men in white coats find that if a pellet arrives everytime the lever is pressed the rat will only press the lever when hungry. However if the reinforcement schedule is random the rat will compulsively press the lever regardless of how hungry he is.

Grand west uses this as a business model.

[Eldron]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

Yes and no...

When I first moved to New Zealand I had no idea that I would get a fine just about every time I broke the law driving. 

I went 120 in a hundred zone on a highway with no other car in sight... fine. Turned right through an orange light... fine. 60 in a 50 zone... fine.

Once I realised that the laws weren't in fact guidelines like they are here, I adjusted accordingly and didn't get any more fines.

So I guess one can change ones behaviour based on outcome. I'm not saying I was a better person, I have and always will be a grumpy (insert rude word), but due to the consequence I was forced to change how I drove. 

I guess consequence plays a role in how people behave or perhaps how people are taught to behave. 

That is the issue with fines - they shape specific behaviour but not general behaviour...and it only punishes/shapes when caught (which is not a lot given the amount of police versus population).

A better way is shape society - this would also solve the problem Morne spoke about.

Much easier said than done of course....and it is really easy for me to say because I now live in a society that is probably the best example of how a society should function.

[MORNE]

6 minutes ago, Eldron said:

That is the issue with fines - they shape specific behaviour but not general behaviour...and it only punishes/shapes when caught (which is not a lot given the amount of police versus population).

A better way is shape society - this would also solve the problem Morne spoke about.

Much easier said than done of course....and it is really easy for me to say because I now live in a society that is probably the best example of how a society should function.

only 'recently' though. they used to do their fair share of rape and pillaging (vikings) 😅

 

[Mamil]

14 minutes ago, Eldron said:

That is the issue with fines - they shape specific behaviour but not general behaviour...and it only punishes/shapes when caught (which is not a lot given the amount of police versus population).

A better way is shape society - this would also solve the problem Morne spoke about.

Much easier said than done of course....and it is really easy for me to say because I now live in a society that is probably the best example of how a society should function.

I know a guy who'd say "try being black in Norway" after he lived there a few years.

I used to think society was the problem. Now I'm not so sure. I think the problem is that where there's society there's people and at any scale beyond the immediate circle we're a pretty rough lot. Even at the local scale of village or family we can be pretty horrific. One to one we're ok. Some of us.

Happy Monday.

 

[Jewbacca]

15 minutes ago, Eldron said:

That is the issue with fines - they shape specific behaviour but not general behaviour...and it only punishes/shapes when caught (which is not a lot given the amount of police versus population).

A better way is shape society - this would also solve the problem Morne spoke about.

Much easier said than done of course....and it is really easy for me to say because I now live in a society that is probably the best example of how a society should function.

For sure, which is why I touched on 'taught behaviour'.

If we are taught from a young age that people are people - dads, moms, husbands, wives, children etc and don't suddenly become something else when they get on a bike, live in poverty, get in your way etc then things change. 

I asked someone who was ranting about cyclists why they hate people and wanted to purposefully hurt someones dad. They said they don't, just cyclists. It's weird how the mind thinks the two are mutually exclusive. 

Anyway, back to the topic. The Land Rover definitely leaked oil on the road. 

[MORNE]

9 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

 

Anyway, back to the topic. The Land Rover definitely leaked oil on the road. 

hahaha.

surely thats why the cyclist slid down the ditch? and I mean, Miley should be billed for the oil spill containment company too. This is a natural disaster BP would be proud of. And Who's going to wash the frogs, birds and foxes? And what if those people slip on the oil and break an ankle???? 

edit: yes comic sans

Edited April 4, 2022 by MORNE

[IceCreamMan]

in order to understand the penalty one must understand the ethos of road useage here and the relationship between the various protagonists. As a vehicle driver it is expected that you are aware of worst case scenario. He should have slowed down.

that said, probably not worth a 1000 quid fine however I feel safer here cycling on roads than I ever did in the cradle within the cycling lane. People are patient and exercise caution when approaching and overtaking cyclists.

Even as a cyclist I sometimes get frustrated by how cyclists behave here , however the paper work can be long and arduous so you just take a deep breath and relax. Where I live cycling is a big sport and always cyclists about, they just become part of the environment. 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by IceCreamMan

[Stoffel76]

2 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Anyway, back to the topic. The Land Rover definitely leaked oil on the road. 

And in his defense, he was in a Land Rover... Maybe he was braking??  😝

[Eldron]

2 hours ago, Mamil said:

I know a guy who'd say "try being black in Norway" after he lived there a few years.

I used to think society was the problem. Now I'm not so sure. I think the problem is that where there's society there's people and at any scale beyond the immediate circle we're a pretty rough lot. Even at the local scale of village or family we can be pretty horrific. One to one we're ok. Some of us.

Happy Monday.

 

This is quite an interesting side to the nordics. They are more nationalist than racist but colour certainly determines how people will treat you here.

I have felt some of it because my name is not Danish. It is pretty interesting as a middle aged white male to experience a tiny fragment of what black South Africans experience daily.

On the plus side - being black (or not Danish) will certainly get you treated with a little less respect but I would guess being a black foreigner in South Africa comes with a significant chance of having your business damaged or you being harmed.

Bad apples in society are what shapes society. For instance I'd guess that less than 1% of South Africans are criminals but it means that the other 99% need to have insurance, stay in the right areas, check who is following, not show valuables/cash, have anti hijacking, expensive insurance etc.

The only real difference between the Nordics and SA is that there are far fewer bad apples here (and the general attitude to the law is far more positive).

 

[Eldron]

2 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

For sure, which is why I touched on 'taught behaviour'.

If we are taught from a young age that people are people - dads, moms, husbands, wives, children etc and don't suddenly become something else when they get on a bike, live in poverty, get in your way etc then things change. 

I asked someone who was ranting about cyclists why they hate people and wanted to purposefully hurt someones dad. They said they don't, just cyclists. It's weird how the mind thinks the two are mutually exclusive. 

Anyway, back to the topic. The Land Rover definitely leaked oil on the road. 

Ah the good old stereotyping. It causes *** all the way from how we treat each other daily to how Russian soldiers treat Ukranian civilians.

Listen to me - I've been in Denmark for a little over 5 years and I'm all liberal'n'**** 🙂

[SwissVan]

3 hours ago, MORNE said:

why did you keep breaking the law in full sight of The Man?? 😇

 

 

Oh my lawd this reminded me of the many times I marshalled races at an intersection on the way to our local NGK  on a Sunday, the swearing and abuse we received from the church goers…..

 

[MORNE]

45 minutes ago, Eldron said:

Listen to me - I've been in Denmark for a little over 5 years and I'm all liberal'n'**** 🙂

so stereotypical danish haha.

this reminds me, My wife was in a fender bender on Wednesday(?) last week. first rain..cape townian brains switch off as per usual (another stereo type lolz) Anyway, she got rear ended by an insurance-less Congolese uber driver in town.

Now we need to go to CT CBD police station for the niceties. While there, in come these OBVIOUS tourist...(pale skinned, backpacks etc - another sterotype hehe - but they were). They were just mugged at the Eastern Bazaar in town. Skollies saw them coming, told them some story, they believed and followed them being so polite and naive,  got their stuff stolen. They then proceeded to empty her credit card of R50k in less than a hour -  since the rest of the world's banking systems are as secure as a pack of peanuts (atleast we have that going for us).

I know all this because I shared my phone's hotspot with them because for some wierd reason the police officer wanted to SEE that their funds were missing??? haha

anyway, They were such nice people, even after what happened, so calm and friendly. I was getting angry on their behalf.

EDIT: oh PS...they were Danish 😅

Edited April 4, 2022 by MORNE

[Eldron]

4 minutes ago, MORNE said:

so stereotypical danish haha.

this reminds me, My wife was in a fender bender on Wednesday(?) last week. first rain..cape townian brains switch off as per usual (another stereo type lolz) Anyway, she got rear ended by an insurance-less Congolese uber driver in town.

Now we need to go to CT CBD police station for the niceties. While there, in come these OBVIOUS tourist...(pale skinned, backpacks etc - another sterotype hehe - but they were). They were just mugged at the Eastern Bazaar in town. Skollies saw them coming, told them some story, they believed and followed them being so polite and naive,  got their stuff stolen. They then proceeded to empty her credit card of R50k in less than a hour -  since the rest of the world's banking systems are as secure as a pack of peanuts (atleast we have that going for us).

I know all this because I shared my phone's hotspot with them because for some wierd reason the police officer wanted to SEE that their funds were missing??? haha

anyway, They were such nice people, even after what happened, so calm and friendly. I was getting angry on their behalf.

EDIT: oh PS...they were Danish 😅

Yup - the downside of being a trusting nation is having that trust abused by arseholes.

Mostly Danes are an unflappable lot. I witnessed a car accident last year - both drivers jumped out to ask each other if they were ok. No finger pointing and swearing - just two people getting on with life after an accident.

We use MobilePay over here - mobile phone based payment system where you type in the amount and number then swipe right to approve the transaction. I have never checked or asked to check the trasaction has gone through and never once have I been swindled.

Bike insurance just pays out - nobody comes to check the bike. I just send through a short report and quote and they pay me (all in under 48 hours).

South African criminals could loot the entire country in a few hours I reckon.

 

[MORNE]

1 minute ago, Eldron said:

 

South African criminals could loot the entire country in a few hours I reckon.

 

since it's relevant in context...

I have a few Swedish friends and i frequently jest that WE (safas) are the new vikings, they wont stand a chance haha

[Eldron]

5 minutes ago, MORNE said:

since it's relevant in context...

I have a few Swedish friends and i frequently jest that WE (safas) are the new vikings, they wont stand a chance haha

Quite right. Scandis are quite non confrontational - it's the Fins you have to worry about. They held off Russia with 2 farmers and a hunter!

[Mamil]

Sitting at my desk at home faffing with admin .... Screaming from the road. Dash out along with half a dozen work from home types on the road. Woman with baby in pram mugged at gun point. Well oiled machinery of local security there in 2 minutes. Perpetrators gone.... Another day.

Not far away in a direction I dare not ride my bike, kids getting killed in gang crossfire....Another day.

Me, the SO and our housekeeper shrug our shoulders and return to our respective work.

None of our adrenals even bother to respond.

Denmark sounds nice. Norway too.