Buyers Advice on Classified Ads

[Hairy]

1 minute ago, ACE Cycles said:

1) Not at all. We have a seller, the hub and the buyer. Whoever sees them and knows better, should warn them. The analogy is hard to use in our current debate 

2) That depends. Is the hat still readily available new and in stock? Is it a Specialized hat? Is the buyer bold and about to hit the beach? 

3) Bad ads? The term is too broad. For everything else, we have the report function, but price would be impossible to police 

1. How would I know to warn a person I do not know or can approach on this world wide web if I am not able to communicate or reach out effectively on the platform the person is shopping on.

2. Spesh hat is available as per their site, you could have gone and done some research on this via the world wide web.

3. The report function is too broad and really not much of a tool other than picking up fraudulently posted items. "Bad ads" .... call it what you like, that term was inserted to aid discussion.

New points.

4. Are you as a dealer afraid of having comments on your ads? If it is a matter of needing to possibly control competitors from messing with your sale, or a person who is completely out of line with their comments, then why not have a report function for this. The current system is all one sided on the sellers side.

5. Were you an active seller when we were still able to comment on ads?

[ACE Cycles]

1 minute ago, gemmerbal said:

You did the painting. I just switched on the light. 

Find me an example in any of my ads or business practices. 

I don't have the desire to defend my character against the likes of you.

[Hairy]

1 minute ago, ACE Cycles said:

You hardly had the internet back then to do any research on your bike 😂

Oom Hairy, I left school in 2005

We had magazines, talking to other cyclists who made poor decisions and helped out new riders as a community and then you had school fees that you paid as you went along.

[Hairy]

Ok, I am out of here for this evening if anyone is directing something my way I will pick up again when back on this thread.

My poor attempt of staying out of here has not worked out very well.

[ACE Cycles]

1 minute ago, Hairy said:

1. How would I know to warn a person I do not know or can approach on this world wide web if I am not able to communicate or reach out effectively on the platform the person is shopping on.

2. Spesh hat is available as per their site, you could have gone and done some research on this via the world wide web.

3. The report function is too broad and really not much of a tool other than picking up fraudulently posted items. "Bad ads" .... call it what you like, that term was inserted to aid discussion.

New points.

4. Are you as a dealer afraid of having comments on your ads? If it is a matter of needing to possibly control competitors from messing with your sale, or a person who is completely out of line with their comments, then why not have a report function for this. The current system is all one sided on the sellers side.

5. Were you an active seller when we were still able to comment on ads?

I dont mind comments on my ads, I advertise on Facebook too and I moderate a few used bike groups. It was a pain though previously with comments here, but mostly from a comms point of view, using comments to ask questions about the item, plenty times I missed those notifications. Now people call or message

[Hairy]

52 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

Can I Google the price of cashews in Moz? Are there platforms to do research, read reviews and get information before making an informed decision? 

Just go to Google, in the search bar type in "Price of nuts Mozambique" and work your way through the results, though I should add that there has been a fair bit of controversy regarding how Google structure their search engine, so dig deeper to find more

https://www.selinawamucii.com/insights/prices/mozambique/cashew-nuts/
 

 

 

 

[Hairy]

2 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

I dont mind comments on my ads, I advertise on Facebook too and I moderate a few used bike groups. It was a pain though previously with comments here, but mostly from a comms point of view, using comments to ask questions about the item, plenty times I missed those notifications. Now people call or message

Damned....I thought I was leaving.

So the problem was not the comments, but you not being able to get a clear flow of communication with the potential buyers?

[Hairy]

REally ... logging off now.

Chat again.

[throttles]

On 6/14/2022 at 3:55 PM, Hairy said:

Surely not if it is kept clean and above board RE comments?

Depends on Mods.. typically sellers are backed by the mods. I’ve logged a couple of threads about bad sellers. Both of who created new accounts now known to mods but are still on the platform.

On 6/14/2022 at 5:48 PM, Matt said:

Danger Dassie hits the nail on the head here. 

As we've gone to great lengths to explain in a number of posts in the YEARS since comments were removed there were pros and cons to Classifieds comments just as there were pros and cons to the subsequent petition thread.

Ultimately the cons outweighed the pros. 
Comments are not coming back. 
And the petition thread only reinforced that decision. Was there some merit to that thread? Absolutely. But similar to comments, on balance unfortunately it was a net negative.

We provide avenues to report problematic adverts. Please use them. 

If a newbie has questions about a particular bike they don't have to worry about being friends with Hairy or not. There's a fantastic Buyers guide forum or even a dedicated Newbies > Ask Anything forum. As history has proven, Hubbers are always willing to guide a newbie in the right direction. And if you think the bike they're keen on is worth 10% of the asking price by all means share that opinion with them on the thread.
 

This can work but it does not help guide people that are less experienced to cut through BS.

I literally bought a FAKE BIKE from a dealer on bikehub. According to them because of the price I should have known! 🤷🏻‍♂️
why not state it in the ad?

13 hours ago, ACE Cycles said:

Strange, maybe the mods don't like you. I proactively look for "resellers" trying to beat the system and my reports have been successful. 

Meh, there’s guys with in excess of 20/30 ads at a time with thousands of past ads that are not dealers 🤷🏻‍♂️

4 hours ago, ACE Cycles said:

I agree with your post.

What would you suggest that admin do in the following scenario:

A dealer, that spends thousands a month advertising on bikehub.co.za, gets his ad ridiculed by a mob of free-use members in a thread? 

Edit: The dealer users his real name or business name whereas the mob hide behind aliases 

I’m a paid user, because I see value in the platform. Perhaps consider the feedback from the users 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

I suggested maybe allow paid users to comment, if they miss behave revoke that privilege. Seems there is no appetite for this.

3 hours ago, sirmoun10goat said:

Well if it is truly a mob, then action can and should be taken against the people making up this mob. There used to be penalty points, not sure if that is still the case.

Another point is some dealers (not @ACE Cycles per say), who truly deserve the ridicule. No matter how much is spent by these dealers on advertising, this does not give them the right to misrepresent their adverts or to charge prices that are out of line to unsuspecting targets. Unlike cars where there are second hand dealers everywhere, even the less informed can do small bit of legwork and see if the price is fair. Bikes, in their lower volumes and untold number of specifications are harder to price, so a platform where people can discuss these situations is hugely beneficial.

As much as we can report suspicious ads, won't it make senses to have an option to report discriminant users? Click 'report user', select 'targeting mu adverts' and then admin can start building a profile of complaints against these users

Shutting stuff down is not the answer.

Hallelujah 

2 hours ago, ACE Cycles said:

I'd love to see some examples of people that get taken advantage of, or do you only speculate? 

30% maybe, on a new bike, as stated above. Unfortunately I sell used bikes... 

 

I’ve been on the wrong side of sellers and dealers. Lots of fakes/copies/replicas on bikehub. Maybe the mods should spend some time moderating the ads more closely instead?

1 hour ago, gemmerbal said:

#metoo (1997)

Matrix 2001 for me 👌🏻👏

 

@Matt if there’s a select few that are the bad apples deal with them. Get them to toe the line. Don’t punish the entire platform. If a dealer can manage comments on Facebook how does comments on bikehub hurt their feelings?

or is that privilege including in the dealer subscription?

 

peace 🕊☮️✌️

[sirmoun10goat]

6 hours ago, ACE Cycles said:

Can I Google the price of cashews in Moz? Are there platforms to do research, read reviews and get information before making an informed decision? 

The truth is there is now one less platform for potential buyers to look to, since we cannot openly discuss these this here anymore.

We may be on our way to buying nuts in Mozambique at this rate.

It feels like this is treating the symptoms  and not the disease. There are a select few bullies here that could be weeded out, not take away the ability to discuss these matters

[ACE Cycles]

5 hours ago, throttles said:

Depends on Mods.. typically sellers are backed by the mods. I’ve logged a couple of threads about bad sellers. Both of who created new accounts now known to mods but are still on the platform.

This can work but it does not help guide people that are less experienced to cut through BS.

I literally bought a FAKE BIKE from a dealer on bikehub. According to them because of the price I should have known! 🤷🏻‍♂️
why not state it in the ad?

Meh, there’s guys with in excess of 20/30 ads at a time with thousands of past ads that are not dealers 🤷🏻‍♂️

I’m a paid user, because I see value in the platform. Perhaps consider the feedback from the users 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

I suggested maybe allow paid users to comment, if they miss behave revoke that privilege. Seems there is no appetite for this.

Hallelujah 

I’ve been on the wrong side of sellers and dealers. Lots of fakes/copies/replicas on bikehub. Maybe the mods should spend some time moderating the ads more closely instead?

Matrix 2001 for me 👌🏻👏

 

@Matt if there’s a select few that are the bad apples deal with them. Get them to toe the line. Don’t punish the entire platform. If a dealer can manage comments on Facebook how does comments on bikehub hurt their feelings?

or is that privilege including in the dealer subscription?

 

peace 🕊☮️✌️

Buying a fake bike constitutes fraud, did you open a case? 

On Facebook groups, there is a vetting process to join, it's not open to all and nobody is hiding behind an alias, so they tend to think before they comment. Bad apples get removed and blocked. 

[sirmoun10goat]

9 hours ago, Matt said:.

Forum traffic (I.e. non-classifieds) and activity has steadily declined over the years with the the rise of of social media and other platforms that allow cyclists to connect and share. Classifieds on the other hand has continued to steadily grow.

How have you verified that this decline is attributable to other social medias? I can tell you what lead me to being on the hub less-the day the non-cycling related topics were killed off. And I have not replaced that with other social medias.

When the economy gets tough (SA is potentially heading that way), the forums may be a great way to sustain traffic, or maybe they are all going to be dead/shut down by then

[sirmoun10goat]

7 hours ago, Hairy said:

REally ... logging off now.

Chat again.

This thread will probably be shut down by the time you wake up

[Delarey]

Before it is shut down I want to salute both sides here. I miss the threads with robust debates where both sides make good points. I don’t have a dog in the fight on this one, but really enjoyed the debate. Found myself agreeing with all sides at one point or another, including the Mods. In general though I feel I sympathise with @ACE Cycles most to be honest. I think buying and selling involves risk and it ties up capital. Also, I am a watch fan, and believe me MSRP and secondhand prices almost has nothing in common in the watch industry. It’s a supply and demand game. 
 

Anyway, thanks for a very entertaining thread. 

[ACE Cycles]

45 minutes ago, Delarey said:

Before it is shut down I want to salute both sides here. I miss the threads with robust debates where both sides make good points. I don’t have a dog in the fight on this one, but really enjoyed the debate. Found myself agreeing with all sides at one point or another, including the Mods. In general though I feel I sympathise with @ACE Cycles most to be honest. I think buying and selling involves risk and it ties up capital. Also, I am a watch fan, and believe me MSRP and secondhand prices almost has nothing in common in the watch industry. It’s a supply and demand game. 
 

Anyway, thanks for a very entertaining thread. 

I really enjoyed the debate and engaging with @Hairy

[Matt]

8 hours ago, throttles said:

Depends on Mods.. typically sellers are backed by the mods. I’ve logged a couple of threads about bad sellers. Both of who created new accounts now known to mods but are still on the platform.

This can work but it does not help guide people that are less experienced to cut through BS.

I literally bought a FAKE BIKE from a dealer on bikehub. According to them because of the price I should have known! 🤷🏻‍♂️
why not state it in the ad?

Meh, there’s guys with in excess of 20/30 ads at a time with thousands of past ads that are not dealers 🤷🏻‍♂️

I’m a paid user, because I see value in the platform. Perhaps consider the feedback from the users 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

I suggested maybe allow paid users to comment, if they miss behave revoke that privilege. Seems there is no appetite for this.

Hallelujah 

I’ve been on the wrong side of sellers and dealers. Lots of fakes/copies/replicas on bikehub. Maybe the mods should spend some time moderating the ads more closely instead?

Matrix 2001 for me 👌🏻👏

 

@Matt if there’s a select few that are the bad apples deal with them. Get them to toe the line. Don’t punish the entire platform. If a dealer can manage comments on Facebook how does comments on bikehub hurt their feelings?

or is that privilege including in the dealer subscription?

 

peace 🕊☮️✌️

Just on the point of fakes, these are illegal and NOT allowed on Bike Hub. If you hadn’t already please report any activity related to fake goods.

We generally receive a handful of reports of fakes advertised on a weekly basis and take action swiftly.

Away from our rules, there are legal channels you can follow if a someone sells you a fake.

And, we offer a safety net in the form of Bike Hub Pay where buyers have significant protection from issues, be it outright fraud, fakes or a seller simply being “generous” in their description of condition.

 

2 hours ago, sirmoun10goat said:

How have you verified that this decline is attributable to other social medias? I can tell you what lead me to being on the hub less-the day the non-cycling related topics were killed off. And I have not replaced that with other social medias.

When the economy gets tough (SA is potentially heading that way), the forums may be a great way to sustain traffic, or maybe they are all going to be dead/shut down by then

Yes, the forum decline is predominantly attributable to other social media.

Removing Chit chat did result in a decline in forum activity and with that a small decline in our page views. This was not a surprise to us nor is it a concern. 

On the point of the economy, when things get tough typically second hand goods see a surge. Both in people looking to generate some cash and others looking for more affordable options. 

Conversely, when the economy toughens advertising budgets tend to shrink which means our forums generate less revenue. 
 

The forums have an important place in our hearts and in the dynamics of Bike Hub. And while usage patterns will shift we don’t see them disappearing. But from a purely academic or business standpoint, if they were to shut tomorrow Bike Hub would not crumble. And to be clear, we have no intention of shutting them down, but it illustrates the point of what the real engine room of Bike Hub is - Classifieds.