Loadshedding solutions

[Theunissa]

I see alot of people want to put back. Remember the time most with solar want to put back is 10-15. This when they need the least amount. Because the problem these days is people want to give back during the day and withdraw at night what they put into the system or early morning to charge batteries. This creates a huge variance and unstable system. Also if you install a proper inverter like deye or synsunk you can feed back into your input and use your excess to supply pool pumps geysers etc

[ChrisF]

9 minutes ago, Theunissa said:

I see alot of people want to put back. Remember the time most with solar want to put back is 10-15. This when they need the least amount. Because the problem these days is people want to give back during the day and withdraw at night what they put into the system or early morning to charge batteries. This creates a huge variance and unstable system. Also if you install a proper inverter like deye or synsunk you can feed back into your input and use your excess to supply pool pumps geysers etc

 

Also remember that during this time slot we have loadshedding and generators being used.

 

Any and all PV will assist in reducing the loadshedding during this period and/or saving diesel.

 

 

 

IF the coal and nuclear stations are capable of delivering 100% of the load, during that afternoon slot, then the pv would counter productive .... it seems we are very far from that situation .....

[ChrisF]

There is a bit of rye humour in the June date of the COCT ....

 

 

This is thee least productive time for pv installations ....

 

It would take another 2 or 3 months before significant excess is available.

[Theunissa]

3 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

Also remember that during this time slot we have loadshedding and generators being used.

 

Any and all PV will assist in reducing the loadshedding during this period and/or saving diesel.

 

 

 

IF the coal and nuclear stations are capable of delivering 100% of the load, during that afternoon slot, then the pv would counter productive .... it seems we are very far from that situation .....

I have spoken to a oom doing Mooikloof in Centurion. The problem is the system is not designed to work that way. It's supposed to be supplied via a central Hub aka substation. So if every one just gives when and what they want it becomes difficult to manage. You must remember you need stable supply. And people typically do WHT they want. So I give now and decide I just take away. Or clouds pop out. If everyone give and the get let's say 1000kw in an area on a cloudy day that 1000k can go from 1000 to 10 in seconds. Then suddenly power gone. Loadshedding is bad already. Can you imagine what mess  and stress on the system it would be is you have " loadshedding simulated" every second or every 30min. The transformers also adjust loads according to demand. Power in joburg jumps 190 peak to 240+ off peak. This will be elevated alot ife every one supplies a bit here a bit there. It's not synced. I agree a solution needs to be found but 1000s of inverters supplying randomly is the problem. And out setup is not designed to work that way. But I'm hoping they solve the problem soon because our country cannot survive this way. 90%of the people cannot afford solar

[ChrisF]

16 minutes ago, Theunissa said:

I have spoken to a oom doing Mooikloof in Centurion. The problem is the system is not designed to work that way. It's supposed to be supplied via a central Hub aka substation. So if every one just gives when and what they want it becomes difficult to manage. You must remember you need stable supply. And people typically do WHT they want. So I give now and decide I just take away. Or clouds pop out. If everyone give and the get let's say 1000kw in an area on a cloudy day that 1000k can go from 1000 to 10 in seconds. Then suddenly power gone. Loadshedding is bad already. Can you imagine what mess  and stress on the system it would be is you have " loadshedding simulated" every second or every 30min. The transformers also adjust loads according to demand. Power in joburg jumps 190 peak to 240+ off peak. This will be elevated alot ife every one supplies a bit here a bit there. It's not synced. I agree a solution needs to be found but 1000s of inverters supplying randomly is the problem. And out setup is not designed to work that way. But I'm hoping they solve the problem soon because our country cannot survive this way. 90%of the people cannot afford solar

 

Certainly a technical challange ....

 

And one that have been resolved in Europe 👍👍

[mazambaan]

9 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

Certainly a technical challange ....

 

And one that have been resolved in Europe 👍👍

and Vietnam and even Oz. There are always those who say things cannot be done; then those who can get it done, somehow; very few usually, particularly working for the "government". Even small generation equipment has load factor sensing systems (or a fixed power factor from grid analysis) and can vary output according to grid conditions (some industrial areas don't need power at night, residential power demand has definite peaks and so on). If there is an imbalance it reduces output or even stops it ("trips"). This stuff is advancing quickly all the time.

Having had some dealing on an element of renewable energy supply with CoCT I am disappointed in them as their generation section (which has around 250MW capacity) seems to be a parking place for the arrogant jobsworths, dare I say some for demographic correctness. Their enquiries and contracts are cumbersome and, to me, greedy (I helped with a tender late last year - it was very one sided and arrogant - good luck CoCT). They have spent a fair bit of money (maybe R100m) on projects that are idle and, to my estimation, unlikely to be very productive; just to run them for say 5 years will cost another R100m or so.

My view, take advice and lessons from municipalities that have done some things successfully (even though they may be ANC controlled) or get out of the kitchen - let the private sector do it and just buy the power on an equitable basis. Co-operate and compromise rather than dictate.

[dave303e]

What I have also noticed popping up with nearly 4 months non stop load shedding is the generators and their maintenance. You need to time it perfect to get the tech there ready for a full 4 hour break to service the generator between load shedding and hope it is cool enough for them to work on especially for major services. It is that or paying overtime for them to do it during the night. I have heard a few horror stories around generators the last few weeks. Including a major head office evacuation because the generator over heated and set off the fire alarm.

[Milosh]

16 hours ago, Showtime said:

When so much power is currently coming from burning diesel, the daytime only isn't a drawback. Eskom can save the diesel for the evenings. 

When it is said that solar is un reliable as it is only day time , these wise words shoudl be rembered !

There is not one fix silver bullet , it will need to be a combined solution , solar one of them. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Milosh
spelling

[taito]

Hello has anyone got experience with 200AH tubular batteries. Im looking a a small system 24V 1200w with one 555w panel for about R 22k

Stand alone for basic stuff in house and some LED lights???

 

[Andreas_187]

The biggest hurdle I faced was finding an installer who wasn’t a scammer and would do a good job. I got a recommendation from a friend and had mine installed today. I used APS and I am very happy with their work. Call Sadeik on 082 905-5537
(I have zero affiliation with them)

The first guys that came to quote were scammers and were on Carte Blanche! It’s a scary prospect to pay out 80k deposit to someone you don’t know. 

[mazambaan]

22 hours ago, dave303e said:

What I have also noticed popping up with nearly 4 months non stop load shedding is the generators and their maintenance. You need to time it perfect to get the tech there ready for a full 4 hour break to service the generator between load shedding and hope it is cool enough for them to work on especially for major services. It is that or paying overtime for them to do it during the night. I have heard a few horror stories around generators the last few weeks. Including a major head office evacuation because the generator over heated and set off the fire alarm.

You have a point - I saw an ebike YT clip where a smoke alarm was suggested in the area where you charge your ebike battery.  Bigger power, batteries or generator, more reason for an alarm; definitely try keep it away from the house; in the garage? with all those nice bikes, sob.

[LazyTrailRider]

I’ve decided to go all in and will soon have 28.6kWh (26kWh usable) SolarMD capacity, up from the 10/8 FreedomWon I currently have.
 

In our 2-person 160sqm household this should get us completely independent, but will have to see how it plays out in the Cape winter.
 

In summer the current setup gets us through the night’s 400kW base load if the evening’s cooking and geyser top-up before showers is run off 2 hours of grid supply. But, sometimes it does not, like last night when I forgot the aircon on and switched it off just before going to bed. These things happen, and winter is a completely different story in the Southern Suburbs, but we shall see…

Edited January 26, 2023 by LazyTrailRider
Typo

[dave303e]

24 minutes ago, mazambaan said:

You have a point - I saw an ebike YT clip where a smoke alarm was suggested in the area where you charge your ebike battery.  Bigger power, batteries or generator, more reason for an alarm; definitely try keep it away from the house; in the garage? with all those nice bikes, sob.

Ya, same goes for rechargeable tool batteries, seen videos of non genuine tool lithium batteries that went boom on chargers in garages. 

4 minutes ago, LazyTrailRider said:

I’ve decided to go all in and will soon have 28.6kWh (26kWh usable) SolarMD capacity, up from the 10/8 FreedomWon I currently have.
 

In our 2-person 160sqm household this should get us completely independent, but will have to see how it plays out in the Cape winter.
 

In summer the current setup gets us through the night’s 400kW base load if the evening’s cooking and geyser top-up before showers is run off 2 hours of grid supply. But, sometimes it does not, like last night when I forgot the aircon on and switched it off just before going to bed. These things happen, and winter is a completely different story in the Southern Suburbs, but we shall see…

That is a moerse battery. We are clear of grid on 14,6kwh battery, 3 people between a small house and an 80sqm cottage. Battery is between 40 and 50% most mornings. But GP winter should be better for us with guaranteed sunlight. We have only gone to backup power once or twice and even then precautionary not necessary. I think the Cape with rain and winter might be a a good reason to go with the 28,6kwh.

[LazyTrailRider]

19 minutes ago, dave303e said:

That is a moerse battery. We are clear of grid on 14,6kwh battery, 3 people between a small house and an 80sqm cottage. Battery is between 40 and 50% most mornings. But GP winter should be better for us with guaranteed sunlight. We have only gone to backup power once or twice and even then precautionary not necessary. I think the Cape with rain and winter might be a a good reason to go with the 28,6kwh.

Yup, unfortunately there is a massive difference in the annual sunlight graph (I posted a link a few dozen pages back) between GP and WC. To add to that, our house runs off rainwater in winter, with two submersible pumps in sumps moving water from the the garage and patio roofs to the tanks on the other side of the house. The garage one also keeps the garage from flooding during heavy downpours, and is a 1kW unit which runs pretty much non-stop for many stormy nights. I suspect I may yet max out the moerse capacity...

[ChrisF]

1 hour ago, mazambaan said:

You have a point - I saw an ebike YT clip where a smoke alarm was suggested in the area where you charge your ebike battery.  Bigger power, batteries or generator, more reason for an alarm; definitely try keep it away from the house; in the garage? with all those nice bikes, sob.

 

Nice thought .... practically totally useless.

 

If I may explain why -

Optical, heat and CO fire detectors all detect a "fire".

 

The only "preventative" measure is when wiring or multi-plugs start smouldering this may trigger a fire detector before it becomes an actual fire.  We have had this on some of our projects.   Client was initially annoyed at the "false alarm" ... became VERY HAPPY when they found the smouldering multi plug.

 

Lithium batteries heat up, swell, and then starts burning.

 

LOTS of researh is being done world wide to find ways to early detect this, also to find ways to combat lithium battery fires.

 

On industrial scale lithium back up battery rooms they now use "gas analysers".  The batteries start giving off certain gasses in the days and weeks leading up to "failure".  By constantly monitoring the room and the gasses they can now accurately determine if some cells are about to "fail".  This technology is VERY expensive, and currently only used in the google type data centres.

 

 

Back at home, for the ordinary e-bike battery .... NO way to measure emminant failure .....

[Meezo]

14 hours ago, Andreas_187 said:

The biggest hurdle I faced was finding an installer who wasn’t a scammer and would do a good job. I got a recommendation from a friend and had mine installed today. I used APS and I am very happy with their work. Call Sadeik on 082 905-5537
(I have zero affiliation with them)

The first guys that came to quote were scammers and were on Carte Blanche! It’s a scary prospect to pay out 80k deposit to someone you don’t know. 

a good friend of mine, super nice guy...

actually had him around at my place a couple of month ago... he's pricing was fair, just more than i could afford.