Yet another tubeless conversion question

[Steady Spin]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:09 PM, Andreas_187 said:

It really isn't that difficult. Stop using GT and sealant. Get some Stan's yellow tape, one layer and finish. Sealant and pump up to 5 bar. Spin the wheel around so the sealant is moving all over the tyre and finish. This should take 10 minutes 

5 what now!?!?

If a tyre isn’t seated at 2.5 bar max you’re doing it wrong. 

[Andreas_187]

14 hours ago, Steady Spin said:

5 what now!?!?

If a tyre isn’t seated at 2.5 bar max you’re doing it wrong. 

You're making it sound so difficult. I changed a spoke 30 minutes ago.

I just put rim tape on, then the tyre, then the sealant and pumped it up to 5 bar and finished in 10 minutes. I should have made a video 

[Piernas Flacas]

Fellow Hubbers, I'm please to announce that my efforts paid off and this last tubeless rework was a total success. 3rd time lucky? Not so. Here's what I learned, and remember, this is to redo an already converted wheel set and start from scratch:

- Remove old tape. If residue is left behind, remove it as well. For Gorilla tape I used, er, more Gorilla tape, it works. Lots of elbow grease.

- If the rubber strip that protect the spoke nipples is worn or loose or dodgy, remove it as well. You'll regret it if you don't.

- Clean the rim thoroughly with acetone or similar to remove any other residue, especially sealant.

- Apply whatever tape blows your hair, Stans or Gorilla or whatever that suits the purpose. Gorilla worked for me. Lots of elbow grease here as well. Make sure the tape is properly stretched and stuck to every nook and cranny on the rim.

- As stated by many people, use either sunlight, soap, or in my case a tiny bit of silicon paste on the tyre beads to ease the fitting to the rim.

- If all of the above was done properly the tyre should pop at no more of 2 bar. If not, something is not right. Either the tape shifted (rim surface contaminated) or there's a leak in the valve. 

I know a lot of this is common sense and has been discussed ad nauseum but sometimes one is lazy and take shortcuts to get the job done quickly. Not for this task. 

It was cool interacting with you all. Safe riding!

Ernesto

[Andreas_187]

There are many ways to skin a cat but for the best and most reliable results I use:

Stan's yellow tape, Orange Seal & Goodyear F1 tyres. This combination should be good for 6000 trouble free kilometres 

I have tried Joe's Sealant, Joe's Road Sealant, Stan's, Stan's Race, Sludge and a few others. They only seem to seal the tyre at low pressures. Joe's Road sealant claims it can seal at over 110psi, it doesn't work. 

I have tried Schwalbe Pro One's, Goodyear F1's & GP5000TR's. They all work very well but the Goodyears has an additional lip on the bead of the tyre which makes it really easy to seal with a hand pump. GP5000TL's are notorious for being a pain in the behind to get on and are not recommended for hookless wheels. The TR's are better but not as easy as Schwalbe or Goodyear. 

I have used Duct tape or Gorilla tape with varying results. Usually you can see sealant leaking from the nipples which means it has gone past the tape. 

Orange Seal & Goodyears are available from lanoysports.co.za (I have zero affiliation to them) 

Gp5000 are >R1300, Schwalbe are ~R1200, Goodyear F1's are R800

Edited October 20, 2022 by Andreas_187

[Piernas Flacas]

4 minutes ago, Andreas_187 said:

There are many ways to skin a cat but for the best and most reliable results I use:

Stan's yellow tape, Orange Seal & Goodyear F1 tyres. This combination should be good for 6000 trouble free kilometres 

I have tried Joe's Sealant, Joe's Road Sealant, Stan's, Stan's Race, Sludge and a few others. They only seem to seal the tyre at low pressures. Joe's Road sealant claims it can seal at over 110psi, it doesn't work. 

I have tried Schwalbe Pro One's, Goodyear F1's & GP5000TR's. They all work very well but the Goodyears has an additional lip on the bead of the tyre which makes it really easy to seal with a hand pump. GP5000TL's are notorious for being a pain in the behind to get on and are not recommended for hookless wheels. The TR's are better but not as easy as Schwalbe or Goodyear. 

I have used Duct tape or Gorilla tape with varying results. Usually you can see sealant leaking from the nipples which means it has gone past the tape. 

Orange Seal & Goodyears are available from lanoysports.co.za (I have zero affiliation to them) 

Thanks for sharing!

[ChrisF]

21 minutes ago, Andreas_187 said:

You're making it sound so difficult. I changed a spoke 30 minutes ago.

I just put rim tape on, then the tyre, then the sealant and pumped it up to 5 bar and finished in 10 minutes. I should have made a video 

 

Buddy popped over on Saturday afternoon.

 

We cleaned the two rims of the old tape while my wife made some coffee.

 

Apply new tape.  Soap water, slip on tire, pop in place with compressor, add sealant, insert valve, inflate to 2,5 bar .... wiggle rim to make sure sealant gets distributed in the tire.

 

Both tires were done long before the cups were cold.

 

 

 

It is easy .... just dont try to skip steps ....

[Steady Spin]

1 hour ago, Andreas_187 said:

You're making it sound so difficult. I changed a spoke 30 minutes ago.

I just put rim tape on, then the tyre, then the sealant and pumped it up to 5 bar and finished in 10 minutes. I should have made a video 

Make one where the tyre blows off the rim and sprays you full of sealant. 

Keep going. You've got this champ! 

[Steady Spin]

1 hour ago, Andreas_187 said:

You're making it sound so difficult. I changed a spoke 30 minutes ago.

I just put rim tape on, then the tyre, then the sealant and pumped it up to 5 bar and finished in 10 minutes. I should have made a video 

Wait... you are talking about road tyres right? 

[Barry]

35 minutes ago, Steady Spin said:

Make one where the tyre blows off the rim and sprays you full of sealant. 

Keep going. You've got this champ! 

Preferably try it in the lounge while watching Hambini how to videos.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Barry

[Andreas_187]

33 minutes ago, Steady Spin said:

Wait... you are talking about road tyres right? 

Yes

[Andreas_187]

43 minutes ago, Steady Spin said:

Make one where the tyre blows off the rim and sprays you full of sealant. 

Keep going. You've got this champ! 

What are you talking about. I'm talking about 5 bar, not 500 bar. You have to pump your tyres up to ride don't you. So are you constantly riding worried that the tyre will blow up? 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Andreas_187

[Steady Spin]

1 hour ago, Andreas_187 said:

What are you talking about. I'm talking about 5 bar, not 500 bar. You have to pump your tyres up to ride don't you. So are you constantly riding worried that the tyre will blow up? 

MTB. We don't need to take our lives in our own hands when seating tubeless. 

[117]

3 hours ago, Piernas Flacas said:

... tape is properly stretched.... 

That was the first problem that you did. Tape shouldnt be stretched by any means. Especially insulating tape if you used this over the nipples

When the temps drop the tape (even the hallowed gt) will contract and the glue bits will not be able to hold it, it'll let go, causing the tape to lift and air to leak past. 

Maybe you'll be lucky and they'll hold a while. 

At least you've had training and can clean a rim blind folded for the next session 

And don't go near the 5bar mark as posters have forewarned. If they don't seat easily you've missed a step

[love2fly]

On 10/19/2022 at 8:37 AM, Andreas_187 said:

Let's go??? Nothing is going to happen except forcing the tyre to seat against the rim. The rim tape  should definitely not be poking out the side

At 5 Bar the rim will probably fail. I've heard of rims cracking at 3 bar...

[ChrisF]

This has the makings of a Friday thread ....

 

Roadies and MTB'ers talking way past each other .....

 

 

For the newbies :

 

1.  MTB ... avoid exceeding 2,5 bar !!

 

2. Road bikes ... whole different story ....

[MTBRIDER1234]

7 hours ago, Piernas Flacas said:

Fellow Hubbers, I'm please to announce that my efforts paid off and this last tubeless rework was a total success. 3rd time lucky? Not so. Here's what I learned, and remember, this is to redo an already converted wheel set and start from scratch:

- Remove old tape. If residue is left behind, remove it as well. For Gorilla tape I used, er, more Gorilla tape, it works. Lots of elbow grease.

- If the rubber strip that protect the spoke nipples is worn or loose or dodgy, remove it as well. You'll regret it if you don't.

- Clean the rim thoroughly with acetone or similar to remove any other residue, especially sealant.

- Apply whatever tape blows your hair, Stans or Gorilla or whatever that suits the purpose. Gorilla worked for me. Lots of elbow grease here as well. Make sure the tape is properly stretched and stuck to every nook and cranny on the rim.

- As stated by many people, use either sunlight, soap, or in my case a tiny bit of silicon paste on the tyre beads to ease the fitting to the rim.

- If all of the above was done properly the tyre should pop at no more of 2 bar. If not, something is not right. Either the tape shifted (rim surface contaminated) or there's a leak in the valve. 

I know a lot of this is common sense and has been discussed ad nauseum but sometimes one is lazy and take shortcuts to get the job done quickly. Not for this task. 

It was cool interacting with you all. Safe riding!

Ernesto

I have used literally all rim tapes and also tried gorilla tape and used the stock rim strips that are claimed tubeless. I can guarantee that rim tape is always the easiest and cleanest out of all of them. Put a layer of insulation tape then do your rim tape (the amount will vary on how deep the rim is. When in doubt with a shallow rim, use slightly less than more. I have blown tires off Stans rims due to using too much rim tape. It was so bad that the rim was crazy out of true and the tire was completely throw away. I also couldn't hear for the next 30 minutes haha, it was far louder than a gunshot. I am no gun expert, but I have shot enough to know how loud they are.

 

3 hours ago, 117 said:

That was the first problem that you did. Tape shouldnt be stretched by any means. Especially insulating tape if you used this over the nipples

When the temps drop the tape (even the hallowed gt) will contract and the glue bits will not be able to hold it, it'll let go, causing the tape to lift and air to leak past. 

Maybe you'll be lucky and they'll hold a while. 

At least you've had training and can clean a rim blind folded for the next session 

And don't go near the 5bar mark as posters have forewarned. If they don't seat easily you've missed a step

Although you must not stretch the tape, you must keep tension. If you don't keep tension, bubbles and creases can form and cause leaks and all kinds of problems. If you are not sure, I would do the rim tape tighter than looser. Also doing it in a truing stand (or on the bike if you don't have a truing stand) makes it 1000 times easier IME.

Edited October 20, 2022 by MTBRIDER1234