SRAM announce hangerless Eagle Transmission drivetrains

[DieselnDust]

34 minutes ago, Hairy said:

The question is, would you even consider buying a bike that does not have SRAM on it

Yes, I like SRAM.

who else makes MTB drivetrans? No one  know of

[WIPEOUT 1000]

12 hours ago, Hairy said:

 

 

You two uncles must stop using dial up internet when viewing the articles.

@WIPEOUT 1000 I have done many a thousand KM over a good many years, and not once bent a rear der. Broken a frame or two, but never damaged a hanger.

Shimano better pick up their game, or else they will be left just shifting gears on basic commuter and roadie bikes

I am aware that the majority of millennials and Gen Z’s generally form their opinions on whatever is trending on social media and/or what the Google/Youtube algorithms pushes to the top.

Furthermore, I appreciate that everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but as the saying goes “not his own facts.”

In this case, if you want to make a constructive contribution to this discussion, I suggest you consider a bit more science/engineering and less marketing hype.

I’ve attached a link to an unsponsored video, explaining why this is truly a very poor engineering solution.

“Mechanical Engineer's Opinion of new SRAM Eagle”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxgxHiijF0

 

 

 

[Jbr]

3 minutes ago, WIPEOUT 1000 said:

I am aware that the majority of millennials and Gen Z’s generally form their opinions on whatever is trending on social media and/or what the Google/Youtube algorithms pushes to the top.

...

I’ve attached a link to an unsponsored video, explaining why this is truly a very poor engineering solution.

“Mechanical Engineer's Opinion of new SRAM Eagle”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxgxHiijF0

lol.

[lechatnoir]

1 hour ago, HdB said:

One perspective on this:

 

I like Peak Torque, He seems to have no skin in the game and calls it like it is.

I would like to see someone have a crack at refuting what he says here.

[ChristiaanSt]

13 hours ago, Hairy said:

 

 

You two uncles must stop using dial up internet when viewing the articles.

@WIPEOUT 1000 I have done many a thousand KM over a good many years, and not once bent a rear der. Broken a frame or two, but never damaged a hanger.

Shimano better pick up their game, or else they will be left just shifting gears on basic commuter and roadie bikes

Agg pls, with the amount of trail riding you do there is no surprise you haven't broken/bent one. The last time you rode a MTB was when fire roads were considered "extreme"

[Jono]

New tech is awesome. Early adopters will pay for the privilege of new stuff, the average rider will benefit from the trickle down. 

But XT shifter and deore derailleur combo is all I want. Peace ✌️

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, HdB said:

One perspective on this:

 

i'm disappointed in this video as he generally does not talk this much $^%@

[lechatnoir]

12 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

i'm disappointed in this video as he generally does not talk this much $^%@

I thought it made sense. what did I miss?

[Alastair_S1D]

7 minutes ago, lechatnoir said:

I thought it made sense. what did I miss?

He disagrees with the conclusion that PT has formed based on what PT has seen of the Derailleur thus far. 

 

And because he disagrees with PT's assessment then the only logical conclusion is that PT is talking k@k

Edited March 22, 2023 by Alastair_S1D

[DieselnDust]

1: He claims the rear mech mounting "is a clanger..." He claims by doing away with the hanger they do away with a reliable datum.

All of what he seaks here is absolute bull**** dressed up in engineering speak.

Th new Mounting system is actually very consistent, very repeatable and far less problematic than a hanger.

For the clevis mount to work the thru axle has to be true to the hub and that has to be aligned to the receiving thread on the derailleur side. If any of these parts are out of alignment the thru axle WILL THREAD INTO THE DERAILLEUR! End of the story. There no no fear of bike industry standards being causing inaccurate derailleur alignment. 

A derailleur hanger is not made to any sort of fine tolerance. It is NOT A PRECISION item. Its often cast from pewter. Yes you can adjust for that by using a hanger alignment tool and yes every bike shop MUST have one because hangers are not very accurate items whereas Anything aligned to the thru axle creates systemic alignment of all the associated parts. So yes He speaks absolute BS. FBS in fact.

dropouts aren't always parallel but we're not really interested in theis because we have a hub with precision manufactured end caps and a long shaft (called a thru axle ) that creates alignmentat teh other end by threading 12-15mm into a a drop out on the drive side. How do you get misalignement if it all threads together on a relatively fine thread.

Shimano once produced a Saint RD that hung off the QR skewer. add idea because the skewer could bend. I don't hear of many thru axles bending in use (although I'm sure the ham fisted muppet's who have will raise their fists to prove a point....) especially not without the wheel orrear triangle being involved in bigger problems.

So yeah his video is lekker klickbait.

2: Shock loads through to the lay up of the frame.

The bikes frames is designed to take much higher shock loads. Derailleur hangers don't take 100's of kgs of shock loads. They only take the loads of the derailleur spring. If an impact occurs your derailleur is damage and your hanger is bent.

3: Serrated washer

The same type of a washer is /was used on carbon drop outs on road bikes and mtb's for decades.

No carbon drop out has failed due to a serrated washer. In fact, rim brake calipers are mounted on road bikes using a serrated washed and brakes have not been ripped off frames for decades.

 

4: Bushing:

He claims the mounting bushing will wear out. I've not seen this bushing wear on current derailleurs. The only difference is that there isn't a hanger. Eery derailleur has to have this mounting bushing to allow for the derailleur to articulate. Bear in mind the T-type derailleur does not rotate about its mounting bushing like a derailleur designed to work with two chain rings. And this is a replaceable component in case of accident damage.

 

basically this video is a rant against change and not against poor engineering and that by its nature is p*ss poor from a an engineer since the very nature of our profession is to initiate change for the better

Nothing he says in this video comes from an engineering perspective. its just pure emotion.. SO yes I disagree with him on all points

[Yyyy]

Im interested in understanding whether this will work well with

1) Shimano Chain, Cassette and Cranks (55mm chain line)

2) Bikes that do not have a 55mm chain line (is this adjustable?)

The other thing to consider if this tech gets trickled down to GX is that anyone who currently owns a non UDH or non 148 boost frame wont be able to get this new transmission system.

Shimano focusing on the peoples market with CUES and Sram focusing on the top end market with Eagle.

[Headshot]

21 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

1: He claims the rear mech mounting "is a clanger..." He claims by doing away with the hanger they do away with a reliable datum.

All of what he seaks here is absolute bull**** dressed up in engineering speak.

Th new Mounting system is actually very consistent, very repeatable and far less problematic than a hanger.

For the clevis mount to work the thru axle has to be true to the hub and that has to be aligned to the receiving thread on the derailleur side. If any of these parts are out of alignment the thru axle WILL THREAD INTO THE DERAILLEUR! End of the story. There no no fear of bike industry standards being causing inaccurate derailleur alignment. 

A derailleur hanger is not made to any sort of fine tolerance. It is NOT A PRECISION item. Its often cast from pewter. Yes you can adjust for that by using a hanger alignment tool and yes every bike shop MUST have one because hangers are not very accurate items whereas Anything aligned to the thru axle creates systemic alignment of all the associated parts. So yes He speaks absolute BS. FBS in fact.

dropouts aren't always parallel but we're not really interested in theis because we have a hub with precision manufactured end caps and a long shaft (called a thru axle ) that creates alignmentat teh other end by threading 12-15mm into a a drop out on the drive side. How do you get misalignement if it all threads together on a relatively fine thread.

Shimano once produced a Saint RD that hung off the QR skewer. add idea because the skewer could bend. I don't hear of many thru axles bending in use (although I'm sure the ham fisted muppet's who have will raise their fists to prove a point....) especially not without the wheel orrear triangle being involved in bigger problems.

So yeah his video is lekker klickbait.

2: Shock loads through to the lay up of the frame.

The bikes frames is designed to take much higher shock loads. Derailleur hangers don't take 100's of kgs of shock loads. They only take the loads of the derailleur spring. If an impact occurs your derailleur is damage and your hanger is bent.

3: Serrated washer

The same type of a washer is /was used on carbon drop outs on road bikes and mtb's for decades.

No carbon drop out has failed due to a serrated washer. In fact, rim brake calipers are mounted on road bikes using a serrated washed and brakes have not been ripped off frames for decades.

 

4: Bushing:

He claims the mounting bushing will wear out. I've not seen this bushing wear on current derailleurs. The only difference is that there isn't a hanger. Eery derailleur has to have this mounting bushing to allow for the derailleur to articulate. Bear in mind the T-type derailleur does not rotate about its mounting bushing like a derailleur designed to work with two chain rings. And this is a replaceable component in case of accident damage.

 

basically this video is a rant against change and not against poor engineering and that by its nature is p*ss poor from a an engineer since the very nature of our profession is to initiate change for the better

Nothing he says in this video comes from an engineering perspective. its just pure emotion.. SO yes I disagree with him on all points

But he's a mechanical engineer and you are a ____________ engineer? 

 

I think time will tell whether any of his concerns have merit or not. Like when you try and get your gears working and there's no scope to adjust the hanger. Oh, but they say its indestructible?Hold my beer SRAM!

Right now, the price makes it an absolute nonsense IMO. I love the fact that Shimano  are making sure that "normal" cyclists have decent long lasting and reliable shifting be it 10 speed or 12 speed at a price that is affordable. To me this new eagle is just elite nonsense that will remain unaffordable for most cyclists.  The youtube shills are at it in force on this one... 

[WIPEOUT 1000]

9 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

1: He claims the rear mech mounting "is a clanger..." He claims by doing away with the hanger they do away with a reliable datum.

All of what he seaks here is absolute bull**** dressed up in engineering speak.

Th new Mounting system is actually very consistent, very repeatable and far less problematic than a hanger.

For the clevis mount to work the thru axle has to be true to the hub and that has to be aligned to the receiving thread on the derailleur side. If any of these parts are out of alignment the thru axle WILL THREAD INTO THE DERAILLEUR! End of the story. There no no fear of bike industry standards being causing inaccurate derailleur alignment. 

A derailleur hanger is not made to any sort of fine tolerance. It is NOT A PRECISION item. Its often cast from pewter. Yes you can adjust for that by using a hanger alignment tool and yes every bike shop MUST have one because hangers are not very accurate items whereas Anything aligned to the thru axle creates systemic alignment of all the associated parts. So yes He speaks absolute BS. FBS in fact.

dropouts aren't always parallel but we're not really interested in theis because we have a hub with precision manufactured end caps and a long shaft (called a thru axle ) that creates alignmentat teh other end by threading 12-15mm into a a drop out on the drive side. How do you get misalignement if it all threads together on a relatively fine thread.

Shimano once produced a Saint RD that hung off the QR skewer. add idea because the skewer could bend. I don't hear of many thru axles bending in use (although I'm sure the ham fisted muppet's who have will raise their fists to prove a point....) especially not without the wheel orrear triangle being involved in bigger problems.

So yeah his video is lekker klickbait.

2: Shock loads through to the lay up of the frame.

The bikes frames is designed to take much higher shock loads. Derailleur hangers don't take 100's of kgs of shock loads. They only take the loads of the derailleur spring. If an impact occurs your derailleur is damage and your hanger is bent.

3: Serrated washer

The same type of a washer is /was used on carbon drop outs on road bikes and mtb's for decades.

No carbon drop out has failed due to a serrated washer. In fact, rim brake calipers are mounted on road bikes using a serrated washed and brakes have not been ripped off frames for decades.

 

4: Bushing:

He claims the mounting bushing will wear out. I've not seen this bushing wear on current derailleurs. The only difference is that there isn't a hanger. Eery derailleur has to have this mounting bushing to allow for the derailleur to articulate. Bear in mind the T-type derailleur does not rotate about its mounting bushing like a derailleur designed to work with two chain rings. And this is a replaceable component in case of accident damage.

 

basically this video is a rant against change and not against poor engineering and that by its nature is p*ss poor from a an engineer since the very nature of our profession is to initiate change for the better

Nothing he says in this video comes from an engineering perspective. its just pure emotion.. SO yes I disagree with him on all points

I am graduate mechanical engineer with more than 30 years experience in the design, building, operation and maintenance of mechanical plant & equipment and from my perspective the issues PT raised are legit.

What type of engineer are you and how does that make you qualified to claim that everything PT said had no engineering merit and is just pure emotion?

Do you possibly also ride SRAM? 

 

 

[Jbr]

1 minute ago, Headshot said:

I think time will tell whether any of his concerns have merit or not.

Exactly this, I'm curious to hear in a year or two what bike mechanics say about this after working on numerous actual customers bikes (not pro sponsored athletes)

[TheoG]

The price disqualifies it for me simple as that.  I just spent ~R10k on GX AXS, that must last for a number of years to justify the expense first before even considering this new RD.

[dasilvarsa]

2 minutes ago, TheoG said:

The price disqualifies it for me simple as that.  I just spent ~R10k on GX AXS, that must last for a number of years to justify the expense first before even considering this new RD.

When you buy a new bike it will come with it.

Our Old Bikes don't qualify for this Innovation.