Why no bicycle delivery services in South Africa

[Ozzie NL]

I would think that the high density living found in most cities in Europe and US make bicycle courier way more feasible than in SA. This probably doe snot hold for JHB and CPT inner city but I do not think that would be the target market. Servicing the suburbs would mean you have to ride a lot of km per delivery (seem to remember that JHB is one of the biggest cities in the world by area?)

Keen to hear what those who tried this as a venture found

[Johan A Marais]

I thought this topic was started 21 months ago, and not 21 hours ago.  Ebikes for deliveries in my area (westcoast) is pretty old news.  I see more of them on the roads than normal scooters, and yes I also find them on the bike paths, passing me when I am heading into a strong SW'r.  

I have recived many a delivery personally at home from an ebiker.  

[MilkManMike]

35 minutes ago, Johan A Marais said:

I thought this topic was started 21 months ago, and not 21 hours ago.  Ebikes for deliveries in my area (westcoast) is pretty old news.  I see more of them on the roads than normal scooters, and yes I also find them on the bike paths, passing me when I am heading into a strong SW'r.  

I have recived many a delivery personally at home from an ebiker.  

Interesting. Can you recall which company/delivery service specifically they were working with? 

[MTBRIDER1234]

I am not sure how an E bike is preferential to a motorbike for doing hundred's of km a day in any way. A motorbike is less effort to ride, probably just as cheap to run in the long term, and way more efficient. Plus a motorbike can travel on roads without a shoulder, and not be a hazard to all other road users. 

It seems in every way a motorbike is just as cheap, more efficient and way faster. So why try fix what's not broken?

[MilkManMike]

48 minutes ago, MTBRIDER1234 said:

I am not sure how an E bike is preferential to a motorbike for doing hundred's of km a day in any way. A motorbike is less effort to ride, probably just as cheap to run in the long term, and way more efficient. Plus a motorbike can travel on roads without a shoulder, and not be a hazard to all other road users. 

It seems in every way a motorbike is just as cheap, more efficient and way faster. So why try fix what's not broken?

Not just e-bikes, but regular bikes are commonly used for delivery services in cities all over the world. They work extremely well. There are loads of benefits over motorbikes, including the relatively obvious environmental ones. They take up less space, they can travel on bike paths, cut across city parks and more.

In heavily congested traffic, bicycles are routinely quicker than motorbikes, as they aren’t as restricted as motorbikes.

But it clearly isn’t a workable solution in South Africa, and some good reasons for that have already been given.

 

I don’t buy that they are cheaper than motorbikes. For local delivery purposes, you definately don’t need an e-bike, a regular bike would work just fine, with a fit rider. A workable bicycle can be had for less than R5k on the used market. Also, delivery riders aren’t doing hundreds of km on a shift. Most deliveries are within a 5km radius.

 

I have done bicycle delivery in Dublin, on a standard hardtail MTB. If I did 60km in an afternoon shift, that would be a lot. I asked the question, because I was considering doing the same in Somerset West, but realised it’s not an option, and it seemed weird to me why. I ride all around SW almost daily on my commuter bike, and don’t find the roads that dangerous. I also spend a lot of time in Stellenbosch, and also don’t find cycling around there particularly life threatening. I am South African, born and bred, and understand the realities of crime and so on here too. I’m not naive to that. I wouldn’t want to do this in downtown JHB or Durban, but SW/Stellies/ and parts of Cape Town, it definately seems a better options than the rickety unroadworthy cars doing food delivery, or the danger to themselves scooter brigade that obviously have no clue about how to ride safely. Plus it has a much lower barrier to entry, and can have poor individuals working directly for the delivery companies, instead of working for some kingpin running fleets of scooters and fleecing them all the way. 
 

Not trying to fix what’s not broken, or re-invent the wheel, it’s just one of those sad realities again that South Africa has such a unique set of problems that things that work all over the rest of the world, don’t work here. We should all be working on plans to have less motorised transport in cities, not more… 

[Heinrich Hattingh]

On 5/30/2023 at 2:46 PM, MilkManMike said:

Just a thought, why do the UBER eats/Mr D/Bolt Food etc crowd not have bicycle delivery people in South Africa. Especially with E-bikes becoming main stream now, this makes so much more sense than the scooters and cars for local deliveries, especially in daylight hours.

All over the rest of the world, this is pretty normal. I work overseas on rotation, so often I’m home for a couple weeks at a time on leave. My fiancé works a normal day job, so during the week, I have a lot of free time. When we lived in Dublin, when I was on RnR I did bike deliveries for UBER eats and UBER connect, as well as DoorDash, basically just when I felt like it. Was often a cool way to find new routes around the city, or a motivation to ride when the weather was crap and so on, and the payment was pretty decent, which helped.

 

This morning I tried signing up for Uber Eats and Bolt, but neither offer a bicycle option for Cape Town. Tried Door Dash, but the app doesn’t even show up in the play store, so I’m assuming it’s not available in South Africa, although Im sure I have seen door dash delivery guys in Cape Town before. Pretty disappointed… I’m on a three month RnR now, while waiting sorting out new work permits and so on… only two weeks in, and already pretty bored at home.

There are. Mr D, kauai and some others have. I can def confirm this as one of them almost killed himself when he almost drove into my Van today in Milnerton industrial. If I didn't see him in my left mirror and stopped turning he would have been a gonner. Mad men out in the rain, gunning it full speed on an E-bike he can hardly ride. 

[Hairy]

We have swarms of e-delivery bicycles in our area, literally hundreds of them

[MTBRIDER1234]

1 hour ago, MilkManMike said:

Not just e-bikes, but regular bikes are commonly used for delivery services in cities all over the world. They work extremely well. There are loads of benefits over motorbikes, including the relatively obvious environmental ones. They take up less space, they can travel on bike paths, cut across city parks and more.

In heavily congested traffic, bicycles are routinely quicker than motorbikes, as they aren’t as restricted as motorbikes.

But it clearly isn’t a workable solution in South Africa, and some good reasons for that have already been given.

 

I don’t buy that they are cheaper than motorbikes. For local delivery purposes, you definately don’t need an e-bike, a regular bike would work just fine, with a fit rider. A workable bicycle can be had for less than R5k on the used market. Also, delivery riders aren’t doing hundreds of km on a shift. Most deliveries are within a 5km radius.

 

I have done bicycle delivery in Dublin, on a standard hardtail MTB. If I did 60km in an afternoon shift, that would be a lot. I asked the question, because I was considering doing the same in Somerset West, but realised it’s not an option, and it seemed weird to me why. I ride all around SW almost daily on my commuter bike, and don’t find the roads that dangerous. I also spend a lot of time in Stellenbosch, and also don’t find cycling around there particularly life threatening. I am South African, born and bred, and understand the realities of crime and so on here too. I’m not naive to that. I wouldn’t want to do this in downtown JHB or Durban, but SW/Stellies/ and parts of Cape Town, it definately seems a better options than the rickety unroadworthy cars doing food delivery, or the danger to themselves scooter brigade that obviously have no clue about how to ride safely. Plus it has a much lower barrier to entry, and can have poor individuals working directly for the delivery companies, instead of working for some kingpin running fleets of scooters and fleecing them all the way. 
 

Not trying to fix what’s not broken, or re-invent the wheel, it’s just one of those sad realities again that South Africa has such a unique set of problems that things that work all over the rest of the world, don’t work here. We should all be working on plans to have less motorised transport in cities, not more… 

Unfortunately, burning hundreds of tons of coal to produce the power to charge E bikes is not way better for the environment than a ICE vehicle.

Have any of the electric vehicle activists seen those massive mining trucks used to carry all the precious metals used to make their batteries? Those things drink thousands of liters of diesel. Batteries also have a far, far shorter lifespan than an ICE, I have heard of million km hiluxes (still on the original engine), but where are these million km Teslas? 

Also when components of electric cars break, you often have to replace the whole motor/battery etc. whereas in an ICE you can just replace a piston/rod/valve etc. 

I don't dislike electric cars, and they have insane performance, but unfortunately they aren't the green solution so many people think they are.

[MilkManMike]

20 minutes ago, MTBRIDER1234 said:

Unfortunately, burning hundreds of tons of coal to produce the power to charge E bikes is not way better for the environment than a ICE vehicle.

Have any of the electric vehicle activists seen those massive mining trucks used to carry all the precious metals used to make their batteries? Those things drink thousands of liters of diesel. Batteries also have a far, far shorter lifespan than an ICE, I have heard of million km hiluxes (still on the original engine), but where are these million km Teslas? 

Also when components of electric cars break, you often have to replace the whole motor/battery etc. whereas in an ICE you can just replace a piston/rod/valve etc. 

I don't dislike electric cars, and they have insane performance, but unfortunately they aren't the green solution so many people think they are.

I literally said not just e-bikes but regular bikes too. In fact from my experience actually doing this in Dublin, the bulk of guys doing deliveries were on regular bikes. 
 

Also, e-bikes are pretty efficient actually, and can pretty easily be charged off of small, solar based systems. Even if charged off fossil fuel powered grids, e-bikes are much much much more efficient than any internal combustion engine….short trip inner city stuff is exactly the use case where electric mobility makes sense. 
 

but, like I have said a dozen times already, you can if reasonably fit, just as easily deliver with a regular bike, which lowers the barrier to entry significantly, and it works all over the world.

[Hairy]

3 hours ago, MTBRIDER1234 said:

Unfortunately, burning hundreds of tons of coal to produce the power to charge E bikes is not way better for the environment than a ICE vehicle.

Have any of the electric vehicle activists seen those massive mining trucks used to carry all the precious metals used to make their batteries? Those things drink thousands of liters of diesel. Batteries also have a far, far shorter lifespan than an ICE, I have heard of million km hiluxes (still on the original engine), but where are these million km Teslas? 

Also when components of electric cars break, you often have to replace the whole motor/battery etc. whereas in an ICE you can just replace a piston/rod/valve etc. 

I don't dislike electric cars, and they have insane performance, but unfortunately they aren't the green solution so many people think they are.

Over the lifespan of a conventional e-engine, and ICE will see so many service intervals where oil is changed, spark plugs, air and oil filters, etc....and if the e-engine is primarily recharged off solar, then it surely has a head start.

When the e-motor dies, it is prob a simple solution to refurb it too, and if not the materials are recyclable again.

[MTBRIDER1234]

24 minutes ago, Hairy said:

Over the lifespan of a conventional e-engine, and ICE will see so many service intervals where oil is changed, spark plugs, air and oil filters, etc....and if the e-engine is primarily recharged off solar, then it surely has a head start.

When the e-motor dies, it is prob a simple solution to refurb it too, and if not the materials are recyclable again.

Unfortunately, the E motors aren't the biggest issue as I understand it, it's the batteries, which need to be replaced fairly often. I do agree with the thing about ICE needing service, but those little engines are pretty tough, so it's not often that they need to be looked at.

But I still believe that until power is generated fully renewably (solar wouldn't work year round, and is quite expensive), electric vehicles are still not going to be good for the environment, and it's just sometimes harder to notice because we don't see all the pollution that power plants release.

The other issue is that an E bike takes hours to recharge, whereas, it takes 5 minutes to fill up a fuel tank and get many times the range of what an E bike would.

To be honest, no solution is perfect, but personally, I am looking for a mode of transport that is more efficient than riding the enduro bike (MTB) everywhere, so my 2 options are a road E bike or a motorbike. I am currently angling for an old(ish) Husqvarna 2 stroke Supermoto, as IMO a motorbike presents better value, efficiency and more fun than an E bike, so I guess I am biased in this debate.

[NotSoBigBen]

20 hours ago, Ozzie NL said:

I would think that the high density living found in most cities in Europe and US make bicycle courier way more feasible than in SA. This probably doe snot hold for JHB and CPT inner city but I do not think that would be the target market. Servicing the suburbs would mean you have to ride a lot of km per delivery (seem to remember that JHB is one of the biggest cities in the world by area?)

Keen to hear what those who tried this as a venture found

I offered services within the Alberton area which I guess isn't that big ... I even did a trip to the south of Jobeg to Suzuki to fetch some spares for a guys car he was working on! He did pay me a bit extra 😃

I used an unassisted bike with no issues

And just my last comment to this is that at least in my experience people were not interested doesn't matter how efficient, 'green' or fast it was ... they'd rather get in their own car go get it themselves or believe that a vehicle, 4 or 2 wheel, is faster and better! Yes there may be some more 'hipster' areas around where its 'cool' but they are certainly in the minority

Good luck to the OP though, it certainly was a lot of fun while it lasted for me. Quite a few of the trips I did the recipients were surprised how quick I got what they needed to them, also took some stuff that I'm sure was 'dodgy' but how would you know...

[Hairy]

10 hours ago, MTBRIDER1234 said:

Unfortunately, the E motors aren't the biggest issue as I understand it, it's the batteries, which need to be replaced fairly often. I do agree with the thing about ICE needing service, but those little engines are pretty tough, so it's not often that they need to be looked at.

But I still believe that until power is generated fully renewably (solar wouldn't work year round, and is quite expensive), electric vehicles are still not going to be good for the environment, and it's just sometimes harder to notice because we don't see all the pollution that power plants release.

The other issue is that an E bike takes hours to recharge, whereas, it takes 5 minutes to fill up a fuel tank and get many times the range of what an E bike would.

To be honest, no solution is perfect, but personally, I am looking for a mode of transport that is more efficient than riding the enduro bike (MTB) everywhere, so my 2 options are a road E bike or a motorbike. I am currently angling for an old(ish) Husqvarna 2 stroke Supermoto, as IMO a motorbike presents better value, efficiency and more fun than an E bike, so I guess I am biased in this debate.

You looking at the wrong bikes for an efficient commuter .... you better looking at the Honda NC750 range.

Many homeowners are moving to setting up solar, at least I am seeing this in my hood.

My one neighbour has 2 x EV cars, and he has set up both his house and office with a decent solar solution .... there are also more than enough places to recharge along the way too at either solar based, or solar supplemented recharging stations, and then pure Eskom based stations.

Even if you are using Eskom power, this is certainly still more eco friendly vs the whole cycle that 1l of petrol takes to get into your tank?

ICE engines are reliable, no probs with that, but they rely on a proper and regular maintenance routine to achieve this. ICE's also use batteries, smaller, but this still use them as consumable devices.

Biggest issue with EV is cost to entry and then reliable power supply. Hoping the cost to entry comes down as tech advances, and people start buying in, and then in SA it is a foregone conclusion that people will largely move to solar, or rely on some other form of renewable energy source.

[MTBRIDER1234]

2 hours ago, Hairy said:

You looking at the wrong bikes for an efficient commuter .... you better looking at the Honda NC750 range.

Many homeowners are moving to setting up solar, at least I am seeing this in my hood.

My one neighbour has 2 x EV cars, and he has set up both his house and office with a decent solar solution .... there are also more than enough places to recharge along the way too at either solar based, or solar supplemented recharging stations, and then pure Eskom based stations.

Even if you are using Eskom power, this is certainly still more eco friendly vs the whole cycle that 1l of petrol takes to get into your tank?

ICE engines are reliable, no probs with that, but they rely on a proper and regular maintenance routine to achieve this. ICE's also use batteries, smaller, but this still use them as consumable devices.

Biggest issue with EV is cost to entry and then reliable power supply. Hoping the cost to entry comes down as tech advances, and people start buying in, and then in SA it is a foregone conclusion that people will largely move to solar, or rely on some other form of renewable energy source.

It's gonna be mostly used for commuting, but also somewhat of a hoon bike... I know 2 strokes well, so working on them and doing all my own servicing isn't a problem. I also think a 750 may be a bit much for my very first bike, and probably a bit heavy/daunting to ride at first.

I honestly didn't even consider the cycle of petrol coming from the source to your tank, but I guess it's also kinda similar for lithium and other minerals.

 

I get your point about solar, and many people are indeed using it, as if you have the money to go full solar, it means no loadshedding, and cheaper electricity in the long run. Just not sure if they really provide any meaningful power in winter. 

I think both ICE and EV are bad for the environment TBH, I just think here in SA, a cheap motorbike is easier/more practical for doing lots of deliveries in a day compared to an E bike. In town, it may work, but where it isn't as dense, there is a lot more gradient and distance to cover. Also if you think about it, your average speed on a motorbike is probably 45 km/h when there's very little traffic. On an E bike, it is half that, so you could theoretically do 2x the amount of deliveries on a motorbike. 

The other big concern is that you would need 2 or 3 E bikes per day if you were doing a lot of deliveries, simply because the charging is so time consuming. I think more people would drive EV cars if it was as quick to charge them as it is to refill a tank. For the people wealthy enough to buy high-end EV's, time is money, so they are looking for convenience. 

Completely off-topic, but I have seen a few E-tron Gt 's, and I wouldn't mind one of those... (but would still prefer an rs6 haha)

[Hairy]

26 minutes ago, MTBRIDER1234 said:

It's gonna be mostly used for commuting, but also somewhat of a hoon bike... I know 2 strokes well, so working on them and doing all my own servicing isn't a problem. I also think a 750 may be a bit much for my very first bike, and probably a bit heavy/daunting to ride at first.

I honestly didn't even consider the cycle of petrol coming from the source to your tank, but I guess it's also kinda similar for lithium and other minerals.

 

I get your point about solar, and many people are indeed using it, as if you have the money to go full solar, it means no loadshedding, and cheaper electricity in the long run. Just not sure if they really provide any meaningful power in winter. 

I think both ICE and EV are bad for the environment TBH, I just think here in SA, a cheap motorbike is easier/more practical for doing lots of deliveries in a day compared to an E bike. In town, it may work, but where it isn't as dense, there is a lot more gradient and distance to cover. Also if you think about it, your average speed on a motorbike is probably 45 km/h when there's very little traffic. On an E bike, it is half that, so you could theoretically do 2x the amount of deliveries on a motorbike. 

The other big concern is that you would need 2 or 3 E bikes per day if you were doing a lot of deliveries, simply because the charging is so time consuming. I think more people would drive EV cars if it was as quick to charge them as it is to refill a tank. For the people wealthy enough to buy high-end EV's, time is money, so they are looking for convenience. 

Completely off-topic, but I have seen a few E-tron Gt 's, and I wouldn't mind one of those... (but would still prefer an rs6 haha)

• 2 stroke is certainly nasty RE pollution
• Honda NC 750 will blow your mind for a commuter bike, it also has programable modes, so you can ride in the rain mode till you build confidence on the bike. It is also light and nimble to ride. My daily is a 1584cc Harley.
• Solar benefits you measure over the year, not a month. Div. that by 12 = monthly gains.
• Once your solar is installed, it is done and dusted, petrol, oil and service materials with labour will keep going up.
• A delivery model works best in a denser environment. If based in a more rural / open area, then the loss of density / profit to the delivery company will be carried over to you the client.
• I worked as a cycle courier in CT. Predominantly in the CB and surrounds, but had the odd delivery that took me out on a 100-150km loop. The client carried the extra over cost for this. At the same time, in a urban or city environment, you would be a miss to measure the efficiency of a bicycle or e-bike against a km/h rule. These bicycles slip through traffic, over pavements, through green belts, or whatever shortcut can be found, and they certainly are quicker than motorbikes in these environments. This from experience. A motorbike vs std bicycle can lug around bigger loads, but the e-bicycles are fitted with the same volume carriers as per the motorbikes.
• Daily power. I have spoken to the e-bike guys, and they get tons of mileage out of their batteries, but they also have spare batteries left on charge at certain stores that deal with them, so their downtime is not an issue as they do not sit around waiting for the battery to charge again. So while your motorbike is at the petrol station waiting to fill up, the e-bike guy just swaps out a battery when he/she picks up a delivery.
• High end EV's. So I refer to my neighbour, who has spent some serious money on his two EV's. It is more about planning and your lifestyle. They travel mostly around the CT metropole and have more than enough range for a days fun. Then most shopping centers also have charging stations, some of them even free. He also sometimes just wants to get away from his office, so goes to work in a coffee shop while leaving the car charging. Long distance trips, this is not a common thing for them, but they then just embrace the fact, and plan a lunch along the way to charge again, or find a nice place to stay over at. It becomes a mindset thing.

 

[MTBRIDER1234]

36 minutes ago, Hairy said:

• 2 stroke is certainly nasty RE pollution
• Honda NC 750 will blow your mind for a commuter bike, it also has programable modes, so you can ride in the rain mode till you build confidence on the bike. It is also light and nimble to ride. My daily is a 1584cc Harley.
• Solar benefits you measure over the year, not a month. Div. that by 12 = monthly gains.
• Once your solar is installed, it is done and dusted, petrol, oil and service materials with labour will keep going up.
• A delivery model works best in a denser environment. If based in a more rural / open area, then the loss of density / profit to the delivery company will be carried over to you the client.
• I worked as a cycle courier in CT. Predominantly in the CB and surrounds, but had the odd delivery that took me out on a 100-150km loop. The client carried the extra over cost for this. At the same time, in a urban or city environment, you would be a miss to measure the efficiency of a bicycle or e-bike against a km/h rule. These bicycles slip through traffic, over pavements, through green belts, or whatever shortcut can be found, and they certainly are quicker than motorbikes in these environments. This from experience. A motorbike vs std bicycle can lug around bigger loads, but the e-bicycles are fitted with the same volume carriers as per the motorbikes.
• Daily power. I have spoken to the e-bike guys, and they get tons of mileage out of their batteries, but they also have spare batteries left on charge at certain stores that deal with them, so their downtime is not an issue as they do not sit around waiting for the battery to charge again. So while your motorbike is at the petrol station waiting to fill up, the e-bike guy just swaps out a battery when he/she picks up a delivery.
• High end EV's. So I refer to my neighbour, who has spent some serious money on his two EV's. It is more about planning and your lifestyle. They travel mostly around the CT metropole and have more than enough range for a days fun. Then most shopping centers also have charging stations, some of them even free. He also sometimes just wants to get away from his office, so goes to work in a coffee shop while leaving the car charging. Long distance trips, this is not a common thing for them, but they then just embrace the fact, and plan a lunch along the way to charge again, or find a nice place to stay over at. It becomes a mindset thing.

 

I know a 2 stroke pollutes more, but less than most cars on the road (especially here), and like I said, it's cheap to buy and easy to fix. The fuel consumption of the one I was looking at is just a liter or so less than your harley per 100km, which admittedly is pretty terrible for a tiny engine.

I'm also not old enough (just) to get a bike over 125cc, and I have been told that 125 4 strokes are frikken gutless. A 125 2 stroke sumo is definitely a fun and nimble first bike from what I understand.

Yeah having an EV does definitely become a lifestyle with having to always factor in charging points and range. Also in dense urban environments, a bicycle is the way to go. The power of riding on pavements and getting through tight spaces where a motorbike can't is extremely helpful. The only advantage of a motorbike is lane splitting, but that can be very sketchy at times.

I didn't even consider the battery point to be honest. I guess it requires a larger amount of capital to start the business, but swapping a battery is definitely akin to fueling up in how long it takes.

You have raised some very good points, and considering that you used to work as a bicycle courier, you are definitely more knowledgeable on the subject. These are the type of respectful and engaging conversations that I like to have on forums. I have learned a lot talking to everyone here.

Edited June 1, 2023 by MTBRIDER1234