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From full suspension to hard tail?


matthewproctor

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18 minutes ago, Hairy said:

You may not be faster on a HT vs a duallie on a tech trail, but you certainly will feel like you are going twice the speed of light on a decent and end up with a smile at the end of the ride.

Of my most memorable rides have been on hardtails, and the absolutely best (As in the most flipping fun rides) were on a single speed hardtail.

Strava, never heard of her.

I did say that I Enjoy Both.

But You must admit that my Arguments are Valid 😂

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I ride a modern SC Highball with a 130mm ohlins in front .My favorite bike for training and the odd gravel,ish event .Earlier in June i rode go2berg . I opted for the full suspension instead .Even an old 26 inch full sus would have been better than a HT for the terrain .Don,t get carried away .Full suspension is still the best mountain bike if you ride multiple terrain  

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Many factors i get it, i get slightly better at this every time i guess….but i smashed my time down armageddon at jonkers on my 140mm hardtail by 40sec vs my 160mm enduro bike. Hardtails are plenty fun. 
 

edit: what i mean is, im fortunate enough to flip a coin and decide what im going to play with, and the hardtail is yet to disappoint. I thought doing a jonkers enduro on it will mean instant death, but now i just want to go try some more stupid things on it. It leaves me smiling and thinking how awesome it is everytime. Dual sus bikes are also fun…but the reward of getting it right on the HT is so much nicer imo. 

Edited by MORNE
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7 minutes ago, eala said:

I ride a modern SC Highball with a 130mm ohlins in front .My favorite bike for training and the odd gravel,ish event .Earlier in June i rode go2berg . I opted for the full suspension instead .Even an old 26 inch full sus would have been better than a HT for the terrain .Don,t get carried away .Full suspension is still the best mountain bike if you ride multiple terrain  

The Highball cc is a solid bombproof frame but very stiff so not the most comfortable unfortunately. But you won't break it and they look cool 👌🏻

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4 minutes ago, Me rida my bicycle said:

The older HT's where teeth rattlers and bone shakers. But the newer geometry and frame designs are so much better. If you're on tygerberg trails you don't need a dual they are smoother than most roads 🤣

This. Tygerberg is borderline boring on too much suspension. With the exception of the rhinos, im pretty sure a HT will kill a dualy on almost everything around here in the right persons hands.

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1 minute ago, Me rida my bicycle said:

The Highball cc is a solid bombproof frame but very stiff so not the most comfortable unfortunately. But you won't break it and they look cool 👌🏻

I have both the old, very stiff, model and the new ,more compliant,  model .The new model is way more compliant than the old frame .It is still a HT and over graspolle and corrugations a dual is still way better if you are riding multiple days in a row .Hard tails are okay for one hard day of riding .All of them get really uncomfortable after day two .Dual suspensions are popular for a reason 

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Hardtail for fun, dualie for comfort.

If you're going to race, unfortunately the answer is a good dualie with decent components and some newer, modern geo, or an older trail bike which will be a bit heavier. It'll get you through the rough stuff without much issue, it won't hurt (as much) to ride consistently rocky or corrugated trails, and it's just less stress on the body. But I'd wager from the fact that you're looking at a Roscoe over a Scale or something similar, that you're here for the rough stuff, trails etc. 

Admittedly another Rapide rider here, from the second I laid my eyes on the local Tigre frame, I had well and truly fallen in love. I sold my carbon Spark 910, a better bike in EVERY aspect on paper (faster, more comfortable, more suspension, refined geo, carbon frame etc) and put the money directly into my Tigre build. I had doubts and second thoughts up until that frame arrived, and from there I never looked back. I have more fun on the trails and even though I'm slower on strava, I feel like I'm going at least twice as fast, and enjoying it twice as much. She absolutely shreds the trails and there's nothing the bike can't do - I don't have a particularly crazy setup, but some 2.4 tyres, an insert at the back and a nice soft 130mm fork at the front, and she does everything from double black enduro lines to multi-day marathon events.

2.5 years later, countless rides and even more kms, and I still get off that bike and look at it in awe - and that's what you want - a bike that gets you to enjoy the riding. As much as this is a Rapide propaganda post, the Roscoe will do the exact same thing, and you'll have more fun doing it than on any dualie.

To answer the questions - you will not regret it, and it won't kill your knees. Your back might be a bit more strained than on a dualie, but that depends what you're riding, anyway :P

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I remember when 29ers were just starting to hit the market. 

It was predicted that 29inch wheels would kill off the full suspension. Apparently, the bigger wheels gave a ride similar to 26 inch full suspension. 

It never happened, but hardtails are definately much better now than 15 years ago 

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I've recently made the switch.

160mm Giant Reign dual sus to a Ragley Big Al 140mm HT. Been on the HT for about 6m now.

My 2c

  • The new HT are insanely capable. I ride pretty much everything in CT and it's only really the proper downhill tracks where I miss the big travel and rear suspension. Most trails in CT are more flow oriented and the HT loves that. Flow, drops, big jumps, no problem. Rocks are also fine but you will chose your line more carefully. Again it's only really the proper DH stuff where I feel under biked. On 90% of trails I literally don't 'feel' a big difference. The Youtubers call it 'compliance' and I can attest to it, a good HT with a nice fork soaks up a lot.
  • While I do think HT is better for learning technique and bike control, I have been riding for a long time and can jump so pretty sure I am not going to case. If you are learning to jump the dual sus is more forgiving. You feel cases much harder on the HT.
  • The HT climbs like a dream compared to the big enduro bike even though both bikes have the same Maxxis DHR tyres. These days I often end up doing two loops instead of one.
  • Cost - No contest compared to DS but when I was looking there wasn't anything complete available in SA so you either had to build your own or buy something like a Roscoe and upgrade it a lot which pushes the price up drastically. Be careful of this. A 30k bike becomes 45k real quick with a few upgrades. I tried for 6m to find something locally but in the end I got a bike from CRC that is solid component wise (no upgrades needed) and there were no similar options available locally and building one up would have cost probably 50% more money.
  • Overall super happy with the aggressive HT and use it 9 out of 10 times. Which bike is good for you depends on your local trails and what you want to do on it. If you want to race DH or enduro its not the best option but it's a super solid choice for everything else. More capable than you think and personally I think most people are overbiked as they aren't exactly clapping DH lines on their 170mm enduro rigs anyway so what's the point.
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5 hours ago, Me rida my bicycle said:

The older HT's where teeth rattlers and bone shakers. But the newer geometry and frame designs are so much better. If you're on tygerberg trails you don't need a dual they are smoother than most roads 🤣

Yours is a  "SoftTail" Carbon frame by Silverback.

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1 hour ago, Brawler said:

I've recently made the switch.

160mm Giant Reign dual sus to a Ragley Big Al 140mm HT. Been on the HT for about 6m now.

My 2c

  • The new HT are insanely capable. I ride pretty much everything in CT and it's only really the proper downhill tracks where I miss the big travel and rear suspension. Most trails in CT are more flow oriented and the HT loves that. Flow, drops, big jumps, no problem. Rocks are also fine but you will chose your line more carefully. Again it's only really the proper DH stuff where I feel under biked. On 90% of trails I literally don't 'feel' a big difference. The Youtubers call it 'compliance' and I can attest to it, a good HT with a nice fork soaks up a lot.
  • While I do think HT is better for learning technique and bike control, I have been riding for a long time and can jump so pretty sure I am not going to case. If you are learning to jump the dual sus is more forgiving. You feel cases much harder on the HT.
  • The HT climbs like a dream compared to the big enduro bike even though both bikes have the same Maxxis DHR tyres. These days I often end up doing two loops instead of one.
  • Cost - No contest compared to DS but when I was looking there wasn't anything complete available in SA so you either had to build your own or buy something like a Roscoe and upgrade it a lot which pushes the price up drastically. Be careful of this. A 30k bike becomes 45k real quick with a few upgrades. I tried for 6m to find something locally but in the end I got a bike from CRC that is solid component wise (no upgrades needed) and there were no similar options available locally and building one up would have cost probably 50% more money.
  • Overall super happy with the aggressive HT and use it 9 out of 10 times. Which bike is good for you depends on your local trails and what you want to do on it. If you want to race DH or enduro its not the best option but it's a super solid choice for everything else. More capable than you think and personally I think most people are overbiked as they aren't exactly clapping DH lines on their 170mm enduro rigs anyway so what's the point.

HogWash

I bet You Got Downhill Tyres on it .😂

Edited by dasilvarsa
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Have a Supercaliber (dream bike). Later got Procaliber for training rides on the roads around home. Have had the opportunity to compare my segments on both bikes over 1000s of km. 

For me, when it gets twisty and bumpy, the dual is quicker for less effort. When the road goes uphill, the HT gets there quicker. 
 

I love both, but suspect that had I bought the Procaliber first, it would have been my only bike. 

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20 hours ago, robbybzgo said:

 

Enjoyment of riding comes from two things that are linked. a) the joy of owning a rad bike and b) the joy of what that bike gives to you when you ride it (are you left with a smile on your face that only fades when you go to sleep at night). The smile can easily be resuscitated when you catch a glance of that wonderful pony just waiting in the stable to be ridden. Too many people buy bikes, just to ride. Let's understand that it's a love affair. Fall out of love and you'll suddenly realise that you're not riding much anymore.

 

Yeah no. Naah. 
Over the years I’ve owned a wide gamut from ugly ducklings to show ponies. The showponies never gave me more joy, in fact I was hesitant to thrash them. I swapped a full carbon Bmc FS01 for an aluminium Trance2. 
I love riding, not the joy of owning bikes.

16 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Buy the Trek Roscoe....

Seriously. Those things are inexpensive and they shred.

You can also dress it up when you want to down the line.

They are fun to ride, easy to maintain, easy to upgrade and the geo is great.

Get back on the bike, fall in love with riding bikes and go from there. Don't overthink it.

Leave the romantic sentiment to others and think of your bike as a tool. A tool to provide smiles, radness and stoke as well as a decent amount of health benefit. 

 

Listen to Jewbacca, he gets it.

14 hours ago, dasilvarsa said:

I Ride Both Merida Big 9 HT and Merida 120 Dual Suspension.

I enjoy Both but I Prefer the Dual Suspension.

Strava Consistently tells me that I'm Faster on the Dual.

On the HT I have to use the Attack Position more and then I can't pedal, It's As Simple as That.

The HT tends to occasionally Try to Throw me off the Saddle, The dual does not.

Cornering is more precise on the Dual.

Tail end Washouts happen on the HT Occasionally but not on the dual.

Climbing is noticeably better on the dual. etc etc.

If you only gonna have One Bike go for the Dual.

If you can have 2 bikes then have them Both.

Oh You can also have a road bike if you Want 3.

A racing snake HT, vs a light trail FS vs a trail HT. Hardly apples for apples. 

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Horses for courses...
I have both and my 10c is that a good HT is a fun bike to ride. Fun has to be in top 3 reasons for me to ride, otherwise I just don't keep doing it.  I tried a HT a few years ago and we just did not mesh and so I sold it and did not look back. Then a few months ago I tried a new alloy HT frame with all the right angles and attributes (brand withheld on purpose), and it is a n absolute blast. It is not the same as a 120 full suss, and can't replace a 160mm enduro bike for obvious reasons - 'fun' being front and foremost.
But for longer trail days; a bit of tar, some roughstuff, and really enjoying trail features for what they are, the HT is great.

Fact is, it is cheap enough to give it a try first. Like it - keep it. Don't like it - move along. no harm, no foul.

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2 hours ago, PhilipV said:

Yeah no. Naah. 
Over the years I’ve owned a wide gamut from ugly ducklings to show ponies. The showponies never gave me more joy, in fact I was hesitant to thrash them. I swapped a full carbon Bmc FS01 for an aluminium Trance2. 
I love riding, not the joy of owning bikes.

 

Hey Philip,

Ek staan gereeld en staar net vir my fiets. Dis soos braai vuur kyk. En ek weet daai Scott van jou is ook so mooi dat jy tydjie kan kyk...

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