Road events - Are organisers dropping the ball or do we expect too much

[Skubarra]

11 hours ago, ChrisF said:

Questions to those that were in the racing groups in let's say 2015 to 2019.

 

1. Were seeding that much "better" then ?

 

2. How many races had "full" road closures back then ?

 

3. Was registration, timing, etc back then better ?

 

 

Clearly easy enough to point out "areas for improvement" in the current setup, just wondering to what extent things may have changed ....

Seeding wasnt any different in principle, there were just more road races. Your seeding was determined by your best 3 races so it took more races to build up a proper seeding to get into the faster groups, however you also had more opportunities (that were relatively cheap) to build up a good seeding.

So generally speaking you had less inexperienced cyclists in the racing bunches and there was less likely to be someone there that got lucky with one fluke result (like what happened with you in the 99er?)

When I took up road cycling it took me about 6 months and quite a few races to work my way up through the alphabet soup groups to A, it felt like quite an achievement back then.

There weren't really more races with full road closures. The Langebaan race had (mostly) road closures but I think this was not really something valued by our local roadies. Stellenbosch/Burger at its height had about 10K riders but never managed to get road road closures. Stellenbosch/Paarl municipalities refused to play along. In my view if they managed the Stellenbosch cycle tour could have rivaled the CTCT for number of participants given the timeslot in December and people coming down and doing the race as part of the Christmas holiday.

 

 

[Bub Marley]

Stellenbosch cycle tour needs to be reignited.  

[Skubarra]

1 minute ago, Bub Marley said:

Stellenbosch cycle tour needs to be reignited.  

Between the cycle tour Trust, PPA and local municipalities they really dropped the ball on that one. They already had the numbers, could have been a massive boost for tourism and the local economy if they allowed it to grow.

Ironically the last one I did, hosted at Val de Vie they had even worse traffic shambles than last weekend's One Tonner. One of the things that killed off the event imo

 

[Jbr]

12 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

 

The core racers will race and say 'I knew everything there was way before the race' but they are on whattsapp groups, teams, know people who know people etc

 

I'm telling you, even then, you sometimes find out about a race less than a couple weeks before, and you've already made other plans. Some orgs really start releasing info at the last minute.

Sometimes even events we have a date for, you still have 0 info about until the week before. There's what used to be a major race in three months time (99er), still 0 info on the route, they'll probably announce it's back to the new route in jan, to then announce 2 days before that in the end it's durbie dash route with a twist at the end like they did the last 2 years. Other example is that gravel race in stanford, no info about the start times but the entries are closing. Well I'm not entering if I don't know if I can drive to the start or if I must book accomodation.

 

Marketing can be expensive, but sometimes all it takes is a post on bike hub, a few posts on instagram tagging a few people that have a good following, for them to share on their stories, then lots of people know about your event. Even Facebook events, it used to be a thing a couple of years ago. Not everyone goes to the cycling sa events page...

 

EDIT : of course, I say this and they post that https://www.facebook.com/99erCycleTour/posts/pfbid02TnewWQfVw6Wmwk5wBoc2rHxa2BKDuLTGBJ6Ynx9cXAfTFmUjGG12DWRfNChopS74l?__cft__[0]=AZVgPKWMer-ubS3gt6DPcZXbsvD4mVP97jXaP4XTu5XXjbm8ehm4Y9RJJoZf8jks2HwhssBgncQNAPv9mjp66tNgRlOgrAYjQXQ_b28ATG9uajVUKeRFi3bLSXm3Oz_oQjFdsNp-WwKaC4T7RYEwEPbwYc2kvJcMM0njVXqeeY2Gw9ONhcb2KhjFPbPICeVJKUOiYMwEgY4E52m6NSWzaDbF&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R 15 mins later 🤣

Edited November 9, 2023 by Jbr

[The Ouzo]

12 hours ago, ChrisF said:

Questions to those that were in the racing groups in let's say 2015 to 2019.

 

1. Were seeding that much "better" then ?

 

2. How many races had "full" road closures back then ?

 

3. Was registration, timing, etc back then better ?

 

 

Clearly easy enough to point out "areas for improvement" in the current setup, just wondering to what extent things may have changed ....

Seeding - I’ve never done many races in the year, most of the times seeding was spot on, but occasionally they’d seed me to far back. But this was my own doing as it’s was usually after I had skipped a few of my normal races. A quick email normally sorted it all out. 
 

back then cyclelab had an events page, I’d go on there and most of the races were listed so I could pick a choose. 
 

road closures weren’t to important either, less traffic on the roads and less “golfers” cycling so people generally behaved from both sides.  There were one or two races we started to avoid because of safety issues though. 
 

im with Jewy here, I’m not a marketer, but I can say when something is not working, and the current marketing is not working. 

[mikkelz]

1 hour ago, Jbr said:

EDIT : of course, I say this and they post that https://www.facebook.com/99erCycleTour/posts/pfbid02TnewWQfVw6Wmwk5wBoc2rHxa2BKDuLTGBJ6Ynx9cXAfTFmUjGG12DWRfNChopS74l?__cft__[0]=AZVgPKWMer-ubS3gt6DPcZXbsvD4mVP97jXaP4XTu5XXjbm8ehm4Y9RJJoZf8jks2HwhssBgncQNAPv9mjp66tNgRlOgrAYjQXQ_b28ATG9uajVUKeRFi3bLSXm3Oz_oQjFdsNp-WwKaC4T7RYEwEPbwYc2kvJcMM0njVXqeeY2Gw9ONhcb2KhjFPbPICeVJKUOiYMwEgY4E52m6NSWzaDbF&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R 15 mins later 🤣

That finish of the 99er, R.I.P. – gets me every time! 😂

[ChrisF]

1 hour ago, Jbr said:

I'm telling you, even then, you sometimes find out about a race less than a couple weeks before, and you've already made other plans. Some orgs really start releasing info at the last minute.

Sometimes even events we have a date for, you still have 0 info about until the week before. There's what used to be a major race in three months time (99er), still 0 info on the route, they'll probably announce it's back to the new route in jan, to then announce 2 days before that in the end it's durbie dash route with a twist at the end like they did the last 2 years. Other example is that gravel race in stanford, no info about the start times but the entries are closing. Well I'm not entering if I don't know if I can drive to the start or if I must book accomodation.

 

Marketing can be expensive, but sometimes all it takes is a post on bike hub, a few posts on instagram tagging a few people that have a good following, for them to share on their stories, then lots of people know about your event. Even Facebook events, it used to be a thing a couple of years ago. Not everyone goes to the cycling sa events page...

 

EDIT : of course, I say this and they post that https://www.facebook.com/99erCycleTour/posts/pfbid02TnewWQfVw6Wmwk5wBoc2rHxa2BKDuLTGBJ6Ynx9cXAfTFmUjGG12DWRfNChopS74l?__cft__[0]=AZVgPKWMer-ubS3gt6DPcZXbsvD4mVP97jXaP4XTu5XXjbm8ehm4Y9RJJoZf8jks2HwhssBgncQNAPv9mjp66tNgRlOgrAYjQXQ_b28ATG9uajVUKeRFi3bLSXm3Oz_oQjFdsNp-WwKaC4T7RYEwEPbwYc2kvJcMM0njVXqeeY2Gw9ONhcb2KhjFPbPICeVJKUOiYMwEgY4E52m6NSWzaDbF&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R 15 mins later 🤣

 

Clearly they follow you for marketing advise 

[Jewbacca]

1 hour ago, Jbr said:

I'm telling you, even then, you sometimes find out about a race less than a couple weeks before, and you've already made other plans. Some orgs really start releasing info at the last minute.

Sometimes even events we have a date for, you still have 0 info about until the week before. There's what used to be a major race in three months time (99er), still 0 info on the route, they'll probably announce it's back to the new route in jan, to then announce 2 days before that in the end it's durbie dash route with a twist at the end like they did the last 2 years. Other example is that gravel race in stanford, no info about the start times but the entries are closing. Well I'm not entering if I don't know if I can drive to the start or if I must book accomodation.

 

Marketing can be expensive, but sometimes all it takes is a post on bike hub, a few posts on instagram tagging a few people that have a good following, for them to share on their stories, then lots of people know about your event. Even Facebook events, it used to be a thing a couple of years ago. Not everyone goes to the cycling sa events page...

 

EDIT : of course, I say this and they post that https://www.facebook.com/99erCycleTour/posts/pfbid02TnewWQfVw6Wmwk5wBoc2rHxa2BKDuLTGBJ6Ynx9cXAfTFmUjGG12DWRfNChopS74l?__cft__[0]=AZVgPKWMer-ubS3gt6DPcZXbsvD4mVP97jXaP4XTu5XXjbm8ehm4Y9RJJoZf8jks2HwhssBgncQNAPv9mjp66tNgRlOgrAYjQXQ_b28ATG9uajVUKeRFi3bLSXm3Oz_oQjFdsNp-WwKaC4T7RYEwEPbwYc2kvJcMM0njVXqeeY2Gw9ONhcb2KhjFPbPICeVJKUOiYMwEgY4E52m6NSWzaDbF&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R 15 mins later 🤣

You're French though... aren't you used to disorganised shambles?

hahaha

[Jbr]

2 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

You're French though... aren't you used to disorganised shambles?

hahaha

Every year when I go back to france for a month, I can't find any race to race or info about anything, it seems far worse there. I still don't understand how there's so many pros there

Edited November 9, 2023 by Jbr

[Danger Dassie]

Social media is by far one of the most effective methods and tools to create comms. The problem is that it gets misused and/or there’s a complete misunderstanding on how to use it. ‘Curated’ content is not communicative, nor telling a story.  

But really, in the broader issue of the OP topics, media isn’t the issue. Costs have soared, so people have less disposable income to drop on events. Events have margins cut to the bone and need to prioritise budget areas. 

[Ncayi]

I generally don't have high expectations regarding logistics for most of the races I enter.My approach is getting there an hour early, having enough nutrition as I don't really make use of the waterpoints and I don't just rely on marshalls to have a safe race. But I have seen my fair share of 💩 shows though.

My biggest gripes though are:

1. I am not aware if there is streamlined communication framework that is followed by the players in the space. I don't think it would be too difficult to coordinate and curate an annual database of races. I am not aware of a single platform one can use to get info on all races happening in a calendar year.

Compiling a race calendar has been a mission for me since moving to JHB. 

2. A lot of races don't publish route files which is such a simple thing to do. This is very important to me when preparing for races as it impacts my pacing, nutritional plan and just knowing where there climbs are.

3. I feel elite and pro riders are just not treated seriously enough. Don't ask me to provide evidence (this is the internet after all) but I just feel more could be done for all entrants but especially the elite racers.

 

An aside! 

Strava is actually and under uterlised medium of communication and not just by race organizers but cycling clubs as well. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Ncayi

[ChrisF]

5 hours ago, Ncayi said:

....

2. A lot of races don't publish route files which is such a simple thing to do. This is very important to me when preparing for races as it impacts my pacing, nutritional plan and just knowing where there climbs are.

......

 

Couple of reasons for this ....

 

With road events the planning may be in place, but until the Local Authority signs off - FRIDAY BEFORE THE EVENT .... you just dont know about that last minute small change.  99% of the times the races done even notice the small changes.  But heaven forbid it is just that bit different than the route file provided.

 

 

With MTB it really should be easier .... but the orrganisers I know often comment about that "last minute" change from Farmer 3 and 5 along the route ....

 

I DO prefer to get the file a few days earlier, as it is just easier at my desk to transfer the files and make sure everything is right .... but I have made peace that this is one item the organisers do struggle with ....

[bleedToWin]

Netwerk24 Paarl Cycle Tour Cancelled 17 days before the event due to low number of entries. Zero marketing done for the event. Am I wrong that 80% of entries are normally received in the 24h before entries close? I'm on a 40-rider squad that normally have about 25 entrants for every road race. We only have 3 riders that have already entered, so for us it's over 90% in the "yes I'm doing it, but still have to enter" camp...

 

[bleedToWin]

Quote

PAARL CYCLE TOUR CANCELLED

It is with a profound sense of sadness that we announce that this year’s Netwerk 24 Paarl Cycle Tour is cancelled.

With less than a month to go to race day, 110 cyclists have entered, which clearly illustrates that the participation side of the industry continues to spiral alarmingly and the event has no chance of meeting its required presentation budget.

We have thus far this spring presented the Boland Gravel Monster, Boland 100 Miler and Val de Vie MTB Expedition, and none of these events have managed to meet their budget demands.

A convergence of circumstances following the far-reaching impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, has created the perfect storm in our industry with participant totals dwindling, race presentation costs increasing alarmingly and sponsorships drying up.

These factors have all placed immense strain on the organisation. Despite our best efforts and an exhaustive exploration of various avenues, we don’t see a sustainable path forward for the event in the light of the poor support.

Throughout our journey we have been fortunate to receive unwavering support from our loyal riders, dedicated race crew, reliable suppliers and, in particular, Drakenstein Municipality.

We are deeply grateful for the relationships we have forged with each of you.

All entries will be refunded.

We now turn our focus to the Tour du Cap, for which entry totals are looking heartening with a large international contingent making up for local lost ground. The Tour du Cap will, as a result continue as planned.

MyActive, will be in contact over the next few days to organise a refund on your entry fee.

 

https://paarlcycletour2023.myactive.co.za/CaptureDetails/Home.aspx

[bleedToWin]

Their strategy consisted off:

• Self professing to be the new Burger-Sanlam
• Early bird entry discount if you enter before 15 December 2022 (50 weeks before the race)
• Listing the event on the MyActive Events calendar

[Akon]

1 minute ago, bleedToWin said:

Early bird entry discount if you enter before 15 December 2022

Guilty...

 

Am I to get circa R40 interest, as well as bank charges, back too?