Strategies for dealing with cramps and preventing them

[Remington]

Thanks for everyone input. I have received valuable take aways. 

I will try the bike fit option as well. 

Thanks for everyone's advice and help. 

[betaboy]

Saddle height and the actual saddle too can greatly make other muscles work harder and it seems it’s worth investigating, something so small can cause injury once the part says, I’m done. I’ve suffered from a saddle that was too low and too far back. Not all settings are universal, with today’s tech, you can get dialled in pretty well and there are a host of fitters out there. I wish you well and hope you get your issues resolved and you can go right past that 50km mark painless. Let us know how you progress. 🤓

[eala]

11 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

I have two takes on this. 

One, which is usually the case, is you aren't fit enough for the effort you're putting out, so you basically go until you blow. 

The other involves what you eat in tandem with the above.

As an anecdote, I know I can run 10km comfortably in 40 minutes. If I decide to run the same 10km route in 33 minutes, there is a very real chance my hamstrings or inside quad will twinge during the run and cramp afterwards.

The sustainable effort vs above threshold is usually what causes the cramps in shorter things.

Longer things it can start being dehydration, required salt etc, but the short stuff as per your examples it's training and/or lack of fitness.

The science guys will start going into sodium levels and all sorts of glucose inputs etc but in reality you're over exerting yourself for your fitness level 

From a 55 year old cramp champ . Genetics are real . I have three children that also cramp badly . Diet makes very little difference . Above comments are correct .I cramp at three hours in .Biggest factor is higher effort than you trained for .Heat, not dehydration per say .I almost never cramp on cool days . Cramp tablets help if you take plenty ,like six at a time .Ride lighter gears if you know you are not fit .Use different muscle groups in a ride and stretch on the bike .Bananas and Game work as good as any product .Saddle height is important to balance your leg muscle efforts   

Edited February 25 by eala

[mecheng89]

21 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

I have two takes on this. 

One, which is usually the case, is you aren't fit enough for the effort you're putting out, so you basically go until you blow. 

The other involves what you eat in tandem with the above.

As an anecdote, I know I can run 10km comfortably in 40 minutes. If I decide to run the same 10km route in 33 minutes, there is a very real chance my hamstrings or inside quad will twinge during the run and cramp afterwards.

The sustainable effort vs above threshold is usually what causes the cramps in shorter things.

Longer things it can start being dehydration, required salt etc, but the short stuff as per your examples it's training and/or lack of fitness.

The science guys will start going into sodium levels and all sorts of glucose inputs etc but in reality you're over exerting yourself for your fitness level 

Time and time again, this is the truth. You can only absorb so much magnesium and swallow so many Rennies, it's not going to help you. Once you've passed that point of no return, you might as well stop and catch a lift home. 

Nice! 🏃‍♂️

[Remington]

I have taken everyone advice to heart and have a bike setup booked for this week. I had my bike setup when I bought it 2 years ago. I have never changed any settings but I agree a revisit is a good starting point.

I will reassess with  another ride this weekend taking all the advice regarding hydration and nutrition and see if there is any improvement. Also taking into consideration a slower pace. I will plan a similar ride  on the same route with the same elevation.

Looking at the riding conditions this past weekend the average temperature was 28C and peaked at 37C. There are so many factors in play here but I do think the main culprit could be something has changed with the bike setup or my positioning. I don't know if my cleat position is not optimal. Since my original setup I bought new shoes and cleats but they were never setup on the current bike. The shop owner set them up on a  jig. I never have had knee problems with the new cleats and shoes but anything is possible

I will give feedback next week after my . Hopefully this can help someone else

 

[J Wakefield]

22 hours ago, guidodg said:

stop alcohol completely, avoid animal protein where possible esp. red meat and dairy...take a Magnesium supplement at night

Shew.

[Paul Ruinaard]

Assuming you are asking in the context of you are under trained. Rennies stomach/antacids are also wonder medicines. Dont ask me why it works but it does. I think Cramp EEZE uses a simialr formula as they tastes the same. These are for your plan to accept 1.) you havent trained enough and b.) Your hydration is a mess. 

So once you start to feel like you are cramping or have been burning matches you shouldnt then pop some Rennies. 

[WIPEOUT 1000]

A couple of years ago a couple of scientist (Dr. Rod MacKinnon & Dr. Bruce Bean), discovered that muscle cramping is triggered by hyperactive nerves that can get over-excited with exercise and repetitively fire into the muscle. 

In short they developed a product "HOTSHOT" that is the only scientifically proven product to prevent and treat muscle cramps. They claim that it basically resets the over-exited nerve. From my experience it's more a case of that if you suddenly experience a greater discomfort, you're body kind of forgets about the the lesser one. In this case if you eat a really hot chilly and your mouth's on fire, the cramps tend to go away. 

HOTSHOT, is also the product Tadej Pogačar used when he started cramping in the last couple of km's of the 2023 Giro di Lombardia.

I've used it and it's basically a variation of pickle juice and it taste like pickle juice blended with apple juice.

I have found that as a alternative, hot pickled onions work really well for me, I buy them then I add some extra chilly powder. The nice thing is that you put a couple in a zip lock bag and eat them either before or as you start cramping. I find that chewing gives a longer burning sensation.

 

[Training wheels]

I am convinced that my cramping was triggered by certain energy gels. Cut the gels and my cramps are much less.

[eala]

2 hours ago, Remington said:

I have taken everyone advice to heart and have a bike setup booked for this week. I had my bike setup when I bought it 2 years ago. I have never changed any settings but I agree a revisit is a good starting point.

I will reassess with  another ride this weekend taking all the advice regarding hydration and nutrition and see if there is any improvement. Also taking into consideration a slower pace. I will plan a similar ride  on the same route with the same elevation.

Looking at the riding conditions this past weekend the average temperature was 28C and peaked at 37C. There are so many factors in play here but I do think the main culprit could be something has changed with the bike setup or my positioning. I don't know if my cleat position is not optimal. Since my original setup I bought new shoes and cleats but they were never setup on the current bike. The shop owner set them up on a  jig. I never have had knee problems with the new cleats and shoes but anything is possible

I will give feedback next week after my . Hopefully this can help someone else

 

The brand and the effect from carbon and nylon sole shoes can cause saddle height differences .Cleat position can change with new shoes .A saddle can drop slightly without you realizing it .Even riding position changes as you get fitter ,stronger ,or you have weight changes .You have to reassess regularly .I am very aware of my comfortable riding position .When i notice something is off ,i stop and change things with the tool that should be on your bike .I have never had a bike setup.It works for me ,but i am probably the exception 

[J Wakefield]

1 hour ago, WIPEOUT 1000 said:

A couple of years ago a couple of scientist (Dr. Rod MacKinnon & Dr. Bruce Bean), discovered that muscle cramping is triggered by hyperactive nerves that can get over-excited with exercise and repetitively fire into the muscle. 

In short they developed a product "HOTSHOT" that is the only scientifically proven product to prevent and treat muscle cramps. They claim that it basically resets the over-exited nerve. From my experience it's more a case of that if you suddenly experience a greater discomfort, you're body kind of forgets about the the lesser one. In this case if you eat a really hot chilly and your mouth's on fire, the cramps tend to go away. 

HOTSHOT, is also the product Tadej Pogačar used when he started cramping in the last couple of km's of the 2023 Giro di Lombardia.

I've used it and it's basically a variation of pickle juice and it taste like pickle juice blended with apple juice.

I have found that as a alternative, hot pickled onions work really well for me, I buy them then I add some extra chilly powder. The nice thing is that you put a couple in a zip lock bag and eat them either before or as you start cramping. I find that chewing gives a longer burning sensation.

 

As with all sell the product wording on cramp preventing products:

"Has been shown to reduce (muscle) cramping" 

The product is not scientifically proven. 

[mecheng89]

1 hour ago, WIPEOUT 1000 said:

A couple of years ago a couple of scientist (Dr. Rod MacKinnon & Dr. Bruce Bean), discovered that muscle cramping is triggered by hyperactive nerves that can get over-excited with exercise and repetitively fire into the muscle. 

In short they developed a product "HOTSHOT" that is the only scientifically proven product to prevent and treat muscle cramps. They claim that it basically resets the over-exited nerve. From my experience it's more a case of that if you suddenly experience a greater discomfort, you're body kind of forgets about the the lesser one. In this case if you eat a really hot chilly and your mouth's on fire, the cramps tend to go away. 

HOTSHOT, is also the product Tadej Pogačar used when he started cramping in the last couple of km's of the 2023 Giro di Lombardia.

I've used it and it's basically a variation of pickle juice and it taste like pickle juice blended with apple juice.

I have found that as a alternative, hot pickled onions work really well for me, I buy them then I add some extra chilly powder. The nice thing is that you put a couple in a zip lock bag and eat them either before or as you start cramping. I find that chewing gives a longer burning sensation.

 

https://teamhotshot.com/blogs/testimonials?page=1

Well, he doesn't feature on this testimonials page.

In a YT vid, he mentions a mixture of cucumber and salt&vinegar. 

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/tadej-pogacar-recalls-how-a-mixed-drink-of-cucumber-juice-salt-and-vinegar-helped-him-stave-off-cramp-to-win-il-lombardia

 

[WIPEOUT 1000]

16 minutes ago, J Wakefield said:

As with all sell the product wording on cramp preventing products:

"Has been shown to reduce (muscle) cramping" 

The product is not scientifically proven. 

John

Apparently, you can e-mail TeamHOTSHOT for the more information on their scientific claims, but I am sure that you know a lot more about cramps than I do.

The only point I really wanted to make, and I do appreciate that my personal experience is anecdotal, is that for me (and a couple of my friends) doing long distance events (e.g. 600km Radonnee's, PBP, etc.), pickle juice and specifically pickled onions has provided relief from exercise induced cramping. Furthermore, if anyone wants to give it a try, it’s cheap and easy to try out.

 

[Gnarly]

On 2/25/2024 at 12:30 PM, guidodg said:

stop alcohol completely, avoid animal protein where possible esp. red meat and dairy...take a Magnesium supplement at night

I'd rather cramp... 

[Spinnaroonie]

5 hours ago, WIPEOUT 1000 said:

I have found that as a alternative, hot pickled onions work really well for me, I buy them then I add some extra chilly powder. The nice thing is that you put a couple in a zip lock bag and eat them either before or as you start cramping. I find that chewing gives a longer burning sensation.

 

I know you're being serious and I can tell it's actually worked for you, so please forgive my ignorance but this absolutely took me out! 🤣 

The visual of packing in hot pickled onions and then sprinkling more chilli is hilarious!

As it stands, I would propose a 2 prong approach to this OP. Pack in your chillied onions AND some Rennies. This way you wont get heartburn from the onions AND you'll have double the cramp-busting power! 

[Bichael Dewing]

7 hours ago, Remington said:

I have taken everyone advice to heart and have a bike setup booked for this week. I had my bike setup when I bought it 2 years ago. I have never changed any settings but I agree a revisit is a good starting point.

I will reassess with  another ride this weekend taking all the advice regarding hydration and nutrition and see if there is any improvement. Also taking into consideration a slower pace. I will plan a similar ride  on the same route with the same elevation.

Looking at the riding conditions this past weekend the average temperature was 28C and peaked at 37C. There are so many factors in play here but I do think the main culprit could be something has changed with the bike setup or my positioning. I don't know if my cleat position is not optimal. Since my original setup I bought new shoes and cleats but they were never setup on the current bike. The shop owner set them up on a  jig. I never have had knee problems with the new cleats and shoes but anything is possible

I will give feedback next week after my . Hopefully this can help someone else

 

Yaaa mate, depends if the oke fitting you is actually qualified past just being a shop assistant thrown into the bike fitting role when he makes a sale or not.. 

Unless it’s a proper bike fitter who’s sole job and expertise are fitting, your ****s set up wrong.. gauranteed..

these threads go on way longer than they need to.. like waaaay longer.. 

my opinion:

get a proper fitting,(could be saddle height, crank length, the saddle itself might be ****, cleat position, stance etc) do some testing.. problem not solved.? consult a dietitian(we are not qualified to tell you what to put in your body), do some testing.. keep seeing professionals until problem solved.. 🤷🏼‍♂️

also bike fitting changes, your body changes, flexibility changes, fitness level changes.. get fitted often(maybe yearly)