Downhill Riders,including current SA National Champ, overlooked for World Champs

[Shebeen]

57 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Worlds doesn’t count toward series points. You need to race and qualify in World cups for that. 

uci dhi World Cup season:

May 3-5 fort William 

may 17-19 bielsko Poland 

June 7-9 Leogang Austria

*************

june 14-6 Val di Sole Italy 

June 25 Les gets France 

thats 5 World Cup races to use to qualify. 

Looks  like GM only satisfied the criteria at VdS by coming 37th in qualifiers.

Would have been interesting if he had crashed there and missed WChamps due to CSA criteria.

 

57 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

XCO has a quota for 6 male and 6 female elites. For those not strong in arithmetic that’s 12 riders. They’re only sending 2 males and 1 female.

U23 we have quota for 6 and 3 females we are unranked in ladies U23. Sending 4 males and 1 female.

i dont see a big song and dance about the XCO not filling the allowed quota.

 

Is there anyone that campaigned in europe not selected?

[Sally E Kirk]

57 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Worlds doesn’t count toward series points. You need to race and qualify in World cups for that. 

uci dhi World Cup season:

May 3-5 fort William 

may 17-19 bielsko Poland 

June 7-9 Leogang Austria

june 14-6 Val di Sole Italy 

June 25 Les gets France 

thats 5 World Cup races to use to qualify. 
So if they had read the criteria in December they could have planned their season to include national series events plus world cups to qualify.

the whole thing is where it is because none of them read the criteria when published. Its not CSA’ s responsibility to make anyone read the rules. That’s a condition of your license therefore it’s on the rider or coach to know the rules.

its a crappy place to be.

XCO has a quota for 6 male and 6 female elites. For those not strong in arithmetic that’s 12 riders. They’re only sending 2 males and 1 female.

U23 we have quota for 6 and 3 females we are unranked in ladies U23. Sending 4 males and 1 female.

3 juniors are going , we have a quota for 6 males and 7 females….

all the riders going QUALIFIED….

i dont see a big song and dance about the XCO not filling the allowed quota.

 

 

Regardless of the publication date of the selection criteria, at the beginning of each year, I tell my riders that you have to attend all 4 National races and SA Champs without exception, which means they often end up riding these races with unhealed injuries or illness just to get the points on offer.  I have seen a parent make a young teenager with a broken collar bone, ride down the Cascades track just so that she was seen to enter, start and finish the race - all to get points on the log, and thereby qualify for Provincial Colours - bizarre but CSA puts these hoops in place for riders to jump through and competitive parents don't know when to say enough is enough.

In addition, you can't plan to attend a National Series race in mid-June when it is held on the same weekend as a World Cup race in Italy - logistically not possible and financially just doesn't make sense.  

We're not debating XC here- different kettle of fish entirely.  The DH riders actually support Luke, Omar, Alan, Candice etc, follow their progress and want them to do well.

Bottom line is - CSA should support its riders, not work against them, regardless of discipline.

[Sally E Kirk]

17 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Looks  like GM only satisfied the criteria at VdS by coming 37th in qualifiers.

Would have been interesting if he had crashed there and missed WChamps due to CSA criteria.

 

Is there anyone that campaigned in europe not selected?

The late inclusion of the Les Gets World Cup as a race for selection, where Greg came third, enabled him to meet the selection criteria.

[Headshot]

The hypocrisy of some on this thread boggles the mind. Our male elite racers are "not good enough" but our sole lady elite and junior referred to in this thread who will both struggle to come anywhere in the world's get the support of one vocal naysayer here. 

The Tread article and video effectively confirms what I have said from the start - the CSA is out of touch and basically unqualified to run a DH selection. No DH rep on their committee and clearly no understanding  how DH actually works or the famous "hurdles" .

Some of you on this thread who decry our local male riders who want to represent SA and have been screwed by the system, really should be ashamed of yourselves.

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

Looks  like GM only satisfied the criteria at VdS by coming 37th in qualifiers.

Would have been interesting if he had crashed there and missed WChamps due to CSA criteria.

 

Is there anyone that campaigned in europe not selected?

Other than for DHI, I don’t think so.

Edited July 25 by DieselnDust

[Shebeen]

 

27 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I don’t think so.

Well there's your answer then. All the XCO people campaigning overseas got selected, therefore no bleating about missing out. 

 

49 minutes ago, Sally E Kirk said:

The late inclusion of the Les Gets World Cup as a race for selection, where Greg came third, enabled him to meet the selection criteria.

I could be reading it wrong, but the points log here shows Greg got his 3rd and qualifying point at VdS, and then 2 more at Les Get to end up on 5.

https://www.treadmtb.co.za/cycling-sa-weighs-in-on-world-champs-downhill-team-selection/

It does look like a simplistic system though. There are 7 points available for racing in SA are basically (2,1, 0.5) from the nationals and the series. Therefore two riders could get 3 each of those points to qualify for worlds. Since we have 6 slots from the UCI the remaining four would need to get those all from the world cup. If I read this correctly then we were only realistically going to have 3 riders in these six slots following this criteria.

Reading this, it is obvious to see the massive gap between what the riders and the administrators feel is good for the sport. Regardless of what happens going forward that needs to close.

https://www.treadmtb.co.za/world-champs-selection-top-sa-downhill-racers-have-their-say/

 

 

 

 

[Shebeen]

45 minutes ago, Headshot said:

The hypocrisy of some on this thread boggles the mind. Our male elite racers are "not good enough" but our sole lady elite and junior referred to in this thread who will both struggle to come anywhere in the world's get the support of one vocal naysayer here. 

The Tread article and video effectively confirms what I have said from the start - the CSA is out of touch and basically unqualified to run a DH selection. No DH rep on their committee and clearly no understanding  how DH actually works or the famous "hurdles" .

Some of you on this thread who decry our local male riders who want to represent SA and have been screwed by the system, really should be ashamed of yourselves.

I'll support 17yr old Ethan Hunter here. He will probably be way off pace for what I'm guessing is his maiden europe trip. We bought one of his portable bike ramps (you've seen them at the Uitsig Bikepark) a few years ago and what a driven, inspiring kid. 

[J Wakefield]

1 hour ago, Headshot said:

The hypocrisy of some on this thread boggles the mind. Our male elite racers are "not good enough" but our sole lady elite and junior referred to in this thread who will both struggle to come anywhere in the world's get the support of one vocal naysayer here. 

The Tread article and video effectively confirms what I have said from the start - the CSA is out of touch and basically unqualified to run a DH selection. No DH rep on their committee and clearly no understanding  how DH actually works or the famous "hurdles" .

Some of you on this thread who decry our local male riders who want to represent SA and have been screwed by the system, really should be ashamed of yourselves.

Na, I would give Frankie money or support for anything she needs that I could help her with just cause I think she is a cool person and has always been respectful to me, I like seeing her do well. 

 

[DieselnDust]

58 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

 

Well there's your answer then. All the XCO people campaigning overseas got selected, therefore no bleating about missing out. 

 

I could be reading it wrong, but the points log here shows Greg got his 3rd and qualifying point at VdS, and then 2 more at Les Get to end up on 5.

https://www.treadmtb.co.za/cycling-sa-weighs-in-on-world-champs-downhill-team-selection/

It does look like a simplistic system though. There are 7 points available for racing in SA are basically (2,1, 0.5) from the nationals and the series. Therefore two riders could get 3 each of those points to qualify for worlds. Since we have 6 slots from the UCI the remaining four would need to get those all from the world cup. If I read this correctly then we were only realistically going to have 3 riders in these six slots following this criteria.

Reading this, it is obvious to see the massive gap between what the riders and the administrators feel is good for the sport. Regardless of what happens going forward that needs to close.

https://www.treadmtb.co.za/world-champs-selection-top-sa-downhill-racers-have-their-say/

 

 

 

 

Johan van Zyl and Candice did a combination of national and World Cup events to qualify.

i think Unathi , Michael and Massi might have used the national series entirely or maybe participated in one world cup each. Not 100% sure.

the same was available to the DH guys. 
 

I doubt CSA will ever filL all the available slots for World Champs. Why would they send a large contingent of riders unless doing so provided a better opportunity for a medal?

the national points accumulation is structured in such a way as to take the best 2 riders male and female from the national series and national champs plus riders performing well in world cups. It is not intended to fill an allocation of slots. No countries selection criteria is designed that way.

Edited July 25 by DieselnDust

[DieselnDust]

4 hours ago, Sally E Kirk said:

 

Regardless of the publication date of the selection criteria, at the beginning of each year, I tell my riders that you have to attend all 4 National races and SA Champs without exception, which means they often end up riding these races with unhealed injuries or illness just to get the points on offer.  I have seen a parent make a young teenager with a broken collar bone, ride down the Cascades track just so that she was seen to enter, start and finish the race - all to get points on the log, and thereby qualify for Provincial Colours - bizarre but CSA puts these hoops in place for riders to jump through and competitive parents don't know when to say enough is enough.

Not sure what bad parenting has to do with Elites not getting selected do to non qualification....? Can you explain?

CSA has nothing to do with provincial colours selection and they don’t force injured riders to participate in the national series. Ja there are hoops so jump through but they don’t force you at gun point. No one’s life is being threatened to participate or else.

4 hours ago, Sally E Kirk said:

In addition, you can't plan to attend a National Series race in mid-June when it is held on the same weekend as a World Cup race in Italy - logistically not possible and financially just doesn't make sense.  

Again, national series started in Jan, World Cups in May, not a significant overlap. You pick the best opportunities to earn your 3 points.

4 hours ago, Sally E Kirk said:

We're not debating XC here- different kettle of fish entirely.  The DH riders actually support Luke, Omar, Alan, Candice etc, follow their progress and want them to do well.

Bottom line is - CSA should support its riders, not work against them, regardless of discipline.

I'm not debating XCO here either. Just illustrating that XCO also did not fill its quota and neither did DH so there is no favoritism one way or the other. The system seems deliberately objective to strip out subjectivity that also gave rise to accusations of unfair treatment in the past. Seems like CSA is caught in the damned-if-you-do-damned- if- you-don't spiral of athlete discontent.

Edited July 25 by DieselnDust

[Irvin85]

Listened to some of the clip provided, I find it very strange that the rider wants to use his own money to go to world champs but cannot use that same money to get to one of the UCI events to earn the required points. 

Instead of earning his slot at worlds they are riding on the coattails of GM to secure qualification. He also stated that neither of them will win the worlds but want to use it to gain experience as there is less competition at worlds. 

 

[betaboy]

With 6 slots available, and we don’t take them, does that mean we potentially will be offered 3 in 2025? 

[Onlybikes]

Honestly feel so disappointed with the Bike Hub community. 

Why would we not be completely behind any people wanting to represent our country. 

I am sure if you where to ask any of our successful rider how much help CSA was they would laugh .

Minaar.Beers .Hathely. Lil. Meintjies. Gibbons. Impy.Stander ... 

Sure they struggled. Give everyone a chance .Full every position possible and give us a chance at growth .

It will cost you nothing but a little pride .

Do it.

Be lekker  

Edited July 25 by Onlybikes

[Shebeen]

20 minutes ago, Onlybikes said:

Honestly feel so disappointed with the Bike Hub community. 

Why would we not be completely behind any people wanting to represent our country. 

I am sure if you where to ask any of our successful rider how much help CSA was they would laugh .

Minaar.Beers .Hathely. Lil. Meintjies. Gibbons. Impy.Stander ... 

Sure they struggled. Give everyone a chance .Full every position possible and give us a chance at growth .

It will cost you nothing but a little pride .

Do it.

Be lekker  

Agreed.  I do think sense will prevail and more riders will go. 

[DieselnDust]

3 hours ago, betaboy said:

With 6 slots available, and we don’t take them, does that mean we potentially will be offered 3 in 2025? 

depends on how many UCI points our riders amass and where RSA stands in the rankings. If Greg retires then its up to the current riders wanting to go to World Champs on his points to go and earn those points for themselves next year.

I'd love to see the arguments next year....

[MORNE]