Save Deer Park Forest: Stop Sugarbird Projects now!

[Martin Albrecht]

1 hour ago, DJR said:

Kirstenbosch is outside the Table Mountain National Park, so, not the same landowner or the same mandate to conserve and rehabilitate that SANParks have.

Kirstenbosch is owned by SANBI, that basically functions like an NGO. Its mandate is MUCH greater than just the Kirstenbosch Botanican Garden, the thing most people see. They are the custodians of basically all the plant specimens for the whole of the Fynbos Biome (the smallest and richest plant kingdom on earth) and their herbarium is internatinally renowned for it. They do extensive research and conservation projects, identify and describe new plant species, preserve threatened ones, even grow plants for re-introduction. Besides for the garden and restaurants, they also have extensive offices and laboratories where botanists from all over the world work. The land where the Botanical garden is today, used to belong to old Cecil John Rhodes who left it to the people of South Africa, exactly like Deer Park. The lawns in Kirstenbosch (exotic grass) were grain fields of the farm called Paradise. The natural vegetation between the lawns and further up the mountain, were left over bits of Fynbos that the botanical garden kept. No land was cleared for the establishment of the garden. Other parts of the agricultural fields were planted with indigenous species from all over South Africa, as a showcase. Many are not native to Table Mountain, but fitting for the purpose of showing and education. A few exotics like oaks were kept because they have historical value. No invasive exotics are tolerated in Kirstenbosch, except the lawns, which are accepted and managed not to spread. The higher indigenous forest part of Kirstenbosch is some of the last natural Table Mountain forest left and is very well looked after, better than the parts that belong to SANParks in the adjacent Newlands forest. (This is truly worth a hike)

SANBI and Kirstenbosch do have their problems and their detractors, but are rated as one of the top 10 botanical gardens in the world. They must do something right.

Although I 100% agree with your entire sentiment, there is one small correction I must make. Sanbi and SANParks aren’t the landowners, they are only the custodians, with specific mandates, which they both act on mostly succesfully. 
 

We, as the tax paying residents of South Africa, are the landowners. 😜 but that is just semantics. Your sentiment remains 100% correct. 

[DJR]

There is also a lovely bit of single track on SANBI/Kirstenbosch land that was funded and built by them without any cost to the cycling community. It links the Newlands Forest and Constantia Neck mtb route together.  That is how you can now ride your MTB all the way from Signal Hill, past Rhodes Memorial and on to Constantia Neck. Below the Kirstenbosch upper gate there is another nice and steep little single track loop than can be linked to the Cork Oak grove along Rhodes Drive and the Constantia Greenbelts.

[Headshot]

Basically, if you want to ride in an actual forest, ride the KB loop and enjoy the real afro-montane forest SA is famous for. 

[dave303e]

On 1/16/2026 at 10:29 AM, DemitriN said:

Thanks for taking the time to write on this post and share your perspective! The squirrels in the company gardens are the exact same variety as those in Deer Park Forest. 

Am I understanding you and other posters correctly that anything (plant or animal) originating outside our borders has no right to exist in our space? Must the squirrels also be caught and culled along with the pines? Very interesting perspectives here! 🪓😅

Irony of all this is that 99% of the vegetation in our gardens and 99% of our pets originate outside of SA - not to mention most of us! 😬

Cook the squirrel over a pinewood fire. I don't see an issue?
 

100% of our gardens, pets and immigrants are outside of protected areas

[Stephan]

Interesting thread. I’m not surprised by the backlash to the OP. My (probably unpopular) two cents…

When it comes to environmental issues, it is socially very unpopular to be seen as “anti-environment”. As a result, those who want a more pragmatic approach often stay quiet, while conservation-first voices tend to be louder. The outcome is that support for positions outside the dominant narrative becomes under-represented, not because it doesn’t exist, but because people are reluctant to speak up for fear of being labelled or ostracised.

Restoring Table Mountain to fynbos-only is clearly not what everyone wants, and that diversity of views matters. On a conceptual spectrum from full development to full protection, land use does not sit at the extremes but along a continuum: full development → urban green space or recreational landscape → multi-use urban nature → managed conservation → restoration → semi-wild protected area → full preservation or wilderness ideal. I would argue that areas such as Deer Park and Newlands Forest sit somewhere between multi-use nature and managed conservation. 

My concern with the Sugarbird Project is not its intent, but the assumption that positioning the project as environmentally friendly automatically assumes broad public support. The reality is more complex and nuanced. Some people value the existing tree cover and the benefits it provides. Deer Park is an intensively used urban green space where trees support safe, cool and accessible recreation. The same goes for Newlands Forest. Any intervention should explicitly acknowledge this human dimension and involve engagement with interested and affected stakeholders, to achieve a balanced outcome that manages invasive species while reflecting a pragmatic urban approach.

[DemitriN]

10 hours ago, DJR said:

Kirstenbosch is outside the Table Mountain National Park, so, not the same landowner or the same mandate to conserve and rehabilitate that SANParks have.

Kirstenbosch is owned by SANBI, that basically functions like an NGO. Its mandate is MUCH greater than just the Kirstenbosch Botanican Garden, the thing most people see. They are the custodians of basically all the plant specimens for the whole of the Fynbos Biome (the smallest and richest plant kingdom on earth) and their herbarium is internatinally renowned for it. They do extensive research and conservation projects, identify and describe new plant species, preserve threatened ones, even grow plants for re-introduction. Besides for the garden and restaurants, they also have extensive offices and laboratories where botanists from all over the world work. The land where the Botanical garden is today, used to belong to old Cecil John Rhodes who left it to the people of South Africa, exactly like Deer Park. The lawns in Kirstenbosch (exotic grass) were grain fields of the farm called Paradise. The natural vegetation between the lawns and further up the mountain, were left over bits of Fynbos that the botanical garden kept. No land was cleared for the establishment of the garden. Other parts of the agricultural fields were planted with indigenous species from all over South Africa, as a showcase. Many are not native to Table Mountain, but fitting for the purpose of showing and education. A few exotics like oaks were kept because they have historical value. No invasive exotics are tolerated in Kirstenbosch, except the lawns, which are accepted and managed not to spread. The higher indigenous forest part of Kirstenbosch is some of the last natural Table Mountain forest left and is very well looked after, better than the parts that belong to SANParks in the adjacent Newlands forest. (This is truly worth a hike)

SANBI and Kirstenbosch do have their problems and their detractors, but are rated as one of the top 10 botanical gardens in the world. They must do something right.

Thank you for your post.

-Clearly Kirstenbosch falls outside TMNP. Glad we can agree on that point! 😁

-Interesting you use the better term “exotics” when referring to oak trees and not “aliens”.  I like that 👍🏼💯 

-I am glad you see value in Kirstenbosch with its very many exotic plants and tree species from all over the globe. Rainbow nature for our rainbow nation!  

-As you correctly point out, Kirstenbosch botanical garden’s significance is derived by, among other factors, its historical value, educational value, and popularity. I believe Deer Park Forest offers these too. 

-Both Kirstenbosch and Deer Park have fynbos. So fynbos and forest CAN coexist! 

✌️ Peace!

[DJR]

9 hours ago, DemitriN said:

.............-I am glad you see value in Kirstenbosch with its very many exotic plants and tree species from all over the globe. Rainbow nature for our rainbow nation! ..............

Kirstenbosch only planted and maintain plant species indigenous to South Africa. The only trees from elsewhere were planted long before it became a botanical garden. There are now very few of those left. The big oak near the "otter pool" is one of the last examples of this. But Kirstenbosch have many many plants that are from other parts of the country and that do not occur naturally on Table Mountain. These are exotic to the mountain. They even have a small baobab from the Limpopo area in their greenhouse as well as succulents from the Karoo. Is this right? Strictly from a conservation point of view, it can be argued that it is not. But then, the botanical garden has other functions, like education, and for that it makes sense. 

I agree, there is no one right and one wrong. (I also like shade and forests.)

Good discussion!

[mazambaan]

Sigh, I am nowhere near here but enough exotic pine, gum and wattle plantations have been planted all over SA and have ruined indigenous grasslands and dried up rivers and streams to last me.  Chopping some down and restoring the indigenous vegetation has my vote.

[DJR]

9 minutes ago, mazambaan said:

Sigh, I am nowhere near here but enough exotic pine, gum and wattle plantations have been planted all over SA and have ruined indigenous grasslands and dried up rivers and streams to last me.  Chopping some down and restoring the indigenous vegetation has my vote.

Grassland conservation and restoration is urgently needed. Sadly, people mostly undervalue grasslands in terms of biodiversity and for how much it contributes to the ecology and balance of  ecosystems.

[fanievb]

52 minutes ago, DJR said:

Grassland conservation and restoration is urgently needed. Sadly, people mostly undervalue grasslands in terms of biodiversity and for how much it contributes to the ecology and balance of  ecosystems.

https://www.greentrust.org.za/2021/09/06/new-national-park-in-the-eastern-cape/

some work happening here in the Eastern Cape.

Just can't find it, but they've recently added more land to this

[Shebeen]

Devil's advocate here.

Kirstenbosch are not in the somewhat arbitrary lines of the TMNP.

Newlands forest is in the somewhat arbitrary lines of the TMNP.

UCT/Rhodes mem is in the somewhat arbitrary lines of the TMNP.

all the arguments to chop down Deerpark apply to Newlands forest. 

[dave303e]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

Devil's advocate here.

Kirstenbosch are not in the somewhat arbitrary lines of the TMNP.

Newlands forest is in the somewhat arbitrary lines of the TMNP.

UCT/Rhodes mem is in the somewhat arbitrary lines of the TMNP.

all the arguments to chop down Deerpark apply to Newlands forest. 

not somewhat arbitrary lines, those all align with surveyed property boundaries.

You can view property boundaries below for reference.

https://csggis.drdlr.gov.za/portal/apps/experiencebuilder/experience/?id=a9a8f908e82c443b9cb7bede69f5985e

[Headshot]

5 hours ago, DJR said:

Kirstenbosch only planted and maintain plant species indigenous to South Africa. The only trees from elsewhere were planted long before it became a botanical garden. There are now very few of those left. The big oak near the "otter pool" is one of the last examples of this. But Kirstenbosch have many many plants that are from other parts of the country and that do not occur naturally on Table Mountain. These are exotic to the mountain. They even have a small baobab from the Limpopo area in their greenhouse as well as succulents from the Karoo. Is this right? Strictly from a conservation point of view, it can be argued that it is not. But then, the botanical garden has other functions, like education, and for that it makes sense. 

I agree, there is no one right and one wrong. (I also like shade and forests.)

Good discussion!

Precisely. Trying to compare KB and Deer Park is one of those false equivalence arguments. 

[Headshot]

4 hours ago, DJR said:

Grassland conservation and restoration is urgently needed. Sadly, people mostly undervalue grasslands in terms of biodiversity and for how much it contributes to the ecology and balance of  ecosystems.

Here in the WC the problem we have is the loss of Fynbos due to excessive fire cycles and the creation of grassland at its expense. I think you can see this happening in parts of Silvermine and possibly Tokai, although there, the aliens prevent even grassland forming...

[Headshot]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

Devil's advocate here.

Kirstenbosch are not in the somewhat arbitrary lines of the TMNP.

Newlands forest is in the somewhat arbitrary lines of the TMNP.

UCT/Rhodes mem is in the somewhat arbitrary lines of the TMNP.

all the arguments to chop down Deerpark apply to Newlands forest. 

Yes, and the balance of the pine trees and gums  in Cecilia. 

[DJR]

19 hours ago, Headshot said:

Here in the WC the problem we have is the loss of Fynbos due to excessive fire cycles and the creation of grassland at its expense. I think you can see this happening in parts of Silvermine and possibly Tokai, although there, the aliens prevent even grassland forming...

Yes, it can be seen clearly on the front of Table Mountain also, especially on the lower slopes above Vredehoek and around to the Blockhouse side.

Edited January 21 by DJR