AuctionLamb Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Like I said in my post, the 2 issues I have when I have to race Elites...I am not complaining just give my reasons why I will not be able to race Elites for the next few years due to my 2 reasons. Imagine I had to race Elites this year!!!
nochain Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I like the way things are done at the Pannorama,minus the Pro's. Was amazing to see al of the top amateurs racing each other regardless of there age. So give the pro's there own cat and then start with a Amateur A(top 200) and then the normal seeded/open batches.
Willehond Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I reckon they should still have u23 / elite / 30-39 / 40-49 etc. and the top 50 in each cat ride in their own groups' date=' the rest get bunched together according to seeding. [/quote'] ...but they have been doing this in Cape Town for YEARS! You guys in Joburg need to catch a wakeup. Seriously though, time based seeding is a bad self-perpetuating way of selecting riders. If you ride Elites you can just suck wheel to stay there while a new guy would have no way to break into the 'elite' group of 50. Just ride harder. Over here anyone can get an Elite licence and turn up at the start, but after two races you will quit because it aint lekker to get called out of the race by the comms after 10 minutes of racing becuase you got dropped again!
AuctionLamb Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I like the way things are done at the Pannorama' date='minus the Pro's. Was amazing to see al of the top amateurs racing each other regardless of there age. So give the pro's there own cat and then start with a Amateur A(top 200) and then the normal seeded/open batches. [/quote']
Spinnekop Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Since when has being a full-time parent affected your physiology? Your responsibilities' date=' yes, but if you could still train there is no reason you can't be up there. [/quote'] The reason is called "time".Your added responsibilities takes time. Time away from training. That is the reason. Savvy? I understand your point' date=' but what about (let's say hypothetically) a 27 year-old with exactly the same responsibilities as you? Should he not then be allowed to race vets as well?[/quote'] Good point.....we just now need to convince CSA to adopt a system where the term "vets" gets changed to "Group A" or "class 1" or whatever. Seeded NOT according to age (And you BUY your licenses i.e. "buy" your seeding/start) but seeded according to ABILITY. That way.....a 30 year old can race with the "pros" IF he has the ability..... and a 30year old can ride an easy ride with group F of Class 22 is he does not have the ability. Something to aim for if you like.........move up a class......not just "buy a license and start the race early". For me it is easy.I do not have the time to train 4-6 hours a day like the Elite guys do. Thus I fall under a "fun rider" category. Be it Vets or Group A, I don't care. As long as I can do a ride where I can compete against riders of the same ability as me. That is the whole idea of competition, is it not? No use for me trying to stay with the Elite bunch. I will get dropped 5km into the race and a solo ride will be done which is sort off like my training rides.....so why race.
Christie Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I agree with the comments from Auctionlamb, Spinnekop and Nochain. I have no interest in competing with professionals, same as they have no interest in mechanical engineering, dentistry, banking etc. The biggest part of my day is spent off the bike. I would however like to compete against serious riders in a similar situatiion as I am, in much the same way as pro's compere, ie teams, team tactics etc. I would not mind competing against 27 year old amateur riders. At the moment, licensed vets is the only way for me to do so. So imo, split pro and amateur. A team must register with CSA, adhere to minimum rider salaries etc. Only members of these teams will then be allowed to start in the pro bunch. As for amateurs, I can't see there ever being an A bunch SA champ, as well as a B bunch one, and a C bunch one etc. I can't even see CSA organizing SA champs for amateurs, think this will die off with the licensed age groups. On the other hand, having licensed age champs makes sense as well. At school level all sports are held in age groups u11, u12 etc. The rationale is to find the best athlete of his/her age, not the best primary school athlete, because it is not a fair reflection of ability to compare for a 13 year old to beat a 9 year old. Same with senior citizens - why compare abilities of a 27 year old with a 50 year old?
Mighty Spoke Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Can we have a separation for pro's and amateurs in the female racing as well...??? Or am i just being soft in my older age now They are separated already. All the amateurs are racing here and our only pro is playing in the US somewhere. Carla Swart? Don't forget about Arien... OK' date=' OK, now I REALLY feel useless, thanks!! There is a 48cm Cannondale Six13 going up for sale...red and black with SRAM components. Any offers [/quote'] Dont you dare WW!!
Frosty Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Heard last night that licences won't be issued unless individual riders meet the minimum seeding criteria. There's nothing on CSA's website about it that I can see, but will share more once I receive any news.
Flemish Lion Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 As metioned before - the current seeding system is no good... Even Jo got her 'A' seeding after 1 year of riding - all it took was my help and some good wheel sucking!! I raced elites first half of last year and VA the second half and this year and I must say I had WAY more fun in any VA race!! I'm hoping next year will be as much fun - meaning they better NOT let us race against the pro's...Flemish Lion2009-06-04 06:29:12
Wonder Woman Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I'm looking at this from a bit of a different perspective being female. So if we race in "like ability" categories...can we have mixed teams or do you still separate the sexes?? If it's mixed teams, how do you find the upcoming stars because I can't imagine any female really racing in amateur A. Frosty, I like the idea of minimum seeding criteria but then they must keep the seeding index a lot more up to date. What if you have one bad year?? Lot's of questions are starting to pop up in my mind!!
Trubie Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Heard last night that licences won't be issued unless individual riders meet the minimum seeding criteria. There's nothing on CSA's website about it that I can see' date=' but will share more once I receive any news.[/quote'] Frosty, you didnt hear what the mini,u, seeding criteria is?Its gonna be interesting, but I dont believe it will achieve anything.If you had a good enough seeding 12 months ago, and not race/train at all inbetween, the seeding is still good, doesnt mean you are?Besides as FL says, if you can manage to wheelsuck you can get a good seeding irrespective of whether you deserve it or not. Recently at Bela B (b bunch), 5-7 guys worked, rest of 40 or whatever in the bunch sucked wheel, we all finished in 2:24, which gives us a seeding of about 14, but few deserve to be under 18/19.
Frosty Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 No Trubie, not even a hint. It was mentioned in our meeting last night, and the response was "We need to advise all our "licenced" members about the criteria to be used, so that by the time applications are submitted they know exactly where they stand." All the flat races were used as an example where people can cheat the system (Bela-Bela, Bakwena, Carousel)
scotty Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 What other criteria can be used besides seeding, also not everyone who qualifies would want to race lic, some actually enjoy racing in the open cats.
Frosty Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I still think races need to be graded, eg. 1=easiest, 10=hardest, with route profile, quality of field, weather conditions, and other important factors contributing to the grading. Then only races from a particular category can be used to determine the individual's seeding for a race falling under that category. The complicate bit comes in when cycling is considered a team sport, and team member #6 does have a good enough seeding for a harder race (as an example).Frosty2009-06-04 07:14:03
101% Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I'd love to know why the obsession with age. A strength-vs-strength category based system is the only way to go. The only other separation should be amateur/pro. SPOT ON!!!!!!!!
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